Would Kes and 7 have gotten along?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by at Quark's, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Of course, 7 "replaced" Kes in the series. But what if she had not, and both characters would have stayed on the ship? Would they have gotten along?

    I seem to implicitly assume they wouldn't, probably because of the "replacing" part, but that's of course no real reason for the characters not to get along. On the other hand, I don't see too much that would connect them, things or interests they would have in common ...
     
  2. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

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    I actually think Kes and Seven would have gotten along just fine. Kes could have been a mentor and guide to Seven acclimating to the crew being an outsider herself at first. Kes was kind and patient.

    In the real world it could not have gone down that way. Janeway needed to the guide to humanity for television.
     
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  3. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    There was no replacement. Kes was a nurse, Tom Paris effectively replaced her. Seven was a civilian mission specialist.

    I think that there would have been no real conflict between them, but not much common ground either.
     
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  4. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    I've been wishing for a long time now that Kes and Seven had overlapped for Season 4, with Kes being Seven's first friend, and eventually the first she'd lose. The season would show Seven becoming more human, while Kes becomes less so, as her powers evolve. It would then end with a tearful goodbye when Kes leaves the ship.
     
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  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Given how instrumental Kes was in helping the Doctor evolve, it's hard to believe she wouldn't have taken on the same role with regards to Seven.
     
  6. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    It wasn't a in-universe replacement, but it was a still replacement in the cast (that's why quoted the word 'replacement').

    The EMH himself might have been one of their shared interests. Kes in a way mentored and encouraged the EMH, the EMH in turn mentored Seven, and as a result, Seven more than once defended his interests.later in the series.

    Actually that could have been a terrific character arc, I think.
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    It would have been interesting to see where things ended up, wouldn't it?
     
  8. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Kes had the kind of easygoing personality that got along with everybody. I'm not sure she and Seven would have been best buddies. I don't think they would have had much opportunity to interact with each other, unless the Doctor had Kes take on some of the stuff he did in the series with helping Seven with her humanity.

    Kor
     
  9. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure that they would have gotten along.
    With her abilities to creep under the defence walls of the people she was interacting with, I'm sure that she would have used that ability to form a bond with Seven. They could easily have become good friends
     
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  10. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    This is pretty interesting in that they do have very different personalities.

    Season 4 Seven is still very Borgish in her mannerisms while also being forthright and exceptionally logical.

    Kes on the other hand is far more curious, and willing to do things Seven would consider a waste of time(watch soap operas for example).

    At the same time, I definitely think Kes would understand why Seven is the way she is, and wouldn’t treat her with any sort of opprobrium or hostility.

    Be curious what the Borg considered the Ocampa.

    I think they’d definitely work well together. And wouldn’t clash like Seven and B’lanna did.
     
  11. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    My first thought would be that they would find the Ocampa mind powers interesting. But the Borg have assimilated hundreds, possibly thousands of species (being a bit conservative here, their species count being over 10,000 doesn't mean they assimilated as many), yet we never see any evidence of them having unusual mental powers other than having that hive mind, which is technology based. So I think the answer to the question would depend a bit on exactly how rare mental abilities such as those of the Ocampa are. We know telepathy isn't that rare (we already have the Vulcans, Betazoids, and other species), but the other stuff Ocampans can do (telekinesis and such) might be rarer.

    If it's very rare, the Borg might not yet have encountered it and they might be interested. If it isn't, and they already assimilated several species with such abilities, that might point to them finding such powers "irrelevant" as we never see them using them. Then again, perhaps it's simply the case that the Borg are interested :but never have been able to actually assimilate such species (not sure how well the Collective would fare if they would face an army of Kesses, even if they still were in the stone age).
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I dunno...it seems as though the Borg can send such overwhelming force to bear on a species they have a pronounced interest in assimilating that mental powers would pose little problem for them unless those powers were on a scale we've rarely witnessed before.

    I imagine trying to telepathically mess with the Borg could have nasty ramifications for the telepath as well.
     
  13. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They probably would have got on fine until they got into an argument in 4.08. "Hey, get the hell out of that Jefferies Tube, that's MY chroniton torpedo."
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    It undoubtedly takes resources to assimilate a being into the Borg. Why take one that will only live a few years?
     
  15. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know, they would peer into the hive mind and perhaps be able to implant thoughts in it, but the other way around the Borg still wouldn't have access. It's not as if they could get assimilated that way, that would still require infection with nanoprobes. Also, I don't think they would need to mess telepathically with the Borg. They could simply boil any drone alive that advanced on them,or some such thing that the Borg couldn't block.

    As to the extent of Kes' powers, we really don't know how far they'd evolve. She had only really just begun exploring them, and at the end, she threw Voyager over 10,000 light years closer to home. I'd call that pretty impressive and I'd have to believe that with those kinds of powers it isn't too hard to repel a Borg attack.

    That is no longer necessarily true for an assimilated Ocampa. Drones might well be essentially ageless after they've matured. And even if they do die within a few years, cracking the secret to those mental powers might be well worth it.
     
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  16. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    All the same, the Borg would have to make substantial physiological and genetic changes to Ocampa drones. Drones that last nine years aren’t very useful unless they do possess telepathic powers of a high degree(in the Ocampa’s case).

    And it didn’t seem to me the Ocampa by and large didn’t have powers that would make either the modifications or short lifespans a trade off the Borg would consider worthwhile.
     
  17. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    ^It's a question I've asked before on this board. If the Borg say : 'we will add your technological and biological distinctiveness to our own' we take it for granted that 'adding their technological distinctivness' means the Borg gain the species' technology to use and built it wherever they see fit. E.g. they assimilate a species that has a superweapon technology, within days, all Cubes can have added that new superweapon to their arsenal. But what happens with the 'biological distinctiveness'? Does it mean that if they assimilate a few members of a species with super strength, they now just have a few superstrong drones while it lasts? Or does it mean that the super strength is studied, reverse-engineered, and if it is somehow compatible uploaded to the rest of the Collective so that from that time forward, all drones gain superstrength? (We know Borg implants rewrite DNA from Best of Both worlds, so perhaps these implants keep updating as new species are added). If that is the case, assimilating a few ocampans might be worth it.

    I agree that in most Ocampans these powers were dormant. The Borg might find it more useful to assimilate Suspiria's colony than Ocampa itself.
     
  18. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    I can see Kes being the one to reach out to Seven on her terms and being the only one who is empathetic without the implied condition of moral conformity.

    Seven would resist her empathy at first but eventually get close to her.
     
  19. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think a more obvious point is being overlooked.

    The Borg were never a threat to Kes' people since they never encountered them. That means the fear and hate and anger that others on the ship feel because of what they know from before, Kes would not have felt. This means she would be much more open to Seven and more patient with her. Neelix was another crewman who never had any issues with her... except for the nanoprobes that brought him back to life, but that episode, "MORTAL COIL", he was going through a BIG mental thing having to deal with coming back, so I think any issues and arguments he had with her gets a pass there.

    This is clearly a known thing as Seven once commented to Paris that he was never apprehensive or had an issue with her, which he responded saying everyone deserves a second chance. It was Seven's way of thanking him, and I do wish there were a few more scenes of them together to see how each style would work with the other.

    Basically, yes. Kes would have not only gotten along fine with her, but I think she would have been another good source of support in regaining her humanity.
     
  20. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    I'm having difficulty seeing them together in any way, they're different characters and I can't anything in common which would invite a story idea. The Borg was old hat by the time Seven of Nine came to the fold, again done right Kes had so much more to offer for that series. I doubt they would be butting heads, it just wasn't Kes' nature, and I doubt they would have anything in common to chat or to do anything on board.