Would it have been possible for the Klingons and Romulans to swap roles in TNG?

[MurphyCooper]

Would it have been possible for the Klingons and Romulans to swap roles in TNG? This is assuming that, for the sake of the question, the events relating to the Enterprise C are inverted - where the Federation responds to a distress signal from a Romulan outpost under attack by Klingons, they intervene, and fend off the Klingons. This would take place in an AU where the Klingons had a "Klingon-Federation" war, with the creation of a Neutral Zone, whereas the Romulans would be an aggressive rival, replacing the Klingons in the various Klingon-Federation conflicts.

This would result in a sequence of events where the Romulans make peace with the Federation (creating the Romulan-Federation alliance) after the Enterprise C incident. Worf in this idea could be Romulan, rather than Klingon (but not sure how the whole "Honor" Element, his family history, etc could be translated to being Romulan), with him being the first Romulan to serve in Starfleet. Or would Worf still be Klingon, and be disowned by the Empire, who is far more aggressive, and views the Federation with far more hostility, suspicion, etc than in the Prime Timeline? What would be more interesting?

When the Klingons "Reveal" themselves after decades (like how "nobody saw a Romulan Ship for many years by the TNG Timeframe), Worf would be seeing a Klingon Ship decloaking for the first time in his life on screen.

 

[Ceridwen]

I mean, the Klingons on the original series are the sneaky, treacherous ones, and the Romulans are the ones focused on honor (though more a soldier's honor than the "warrior's honor" the Klingons would have). Honestly, your proposal would be more in character based on what we had already seen.

 

[Dukhat]

The whole idea of having Worf as a crewmember came from TOS's "Errand of Mercy" where it was predicted that humans and Klingons would end up as allies. Despite Roddenberry not wanting Klingons on the show at all (or Romulans for that matter, as he did not want to revisit aliens from TOS because he envisioned TNG as a reboot, not a sequel), the prevailing attitude was that the Klingons were now our friends, and the Romulans were still the bad guys.

Now with that said, the actual portrayal of the Klingons and Romulans in TNG were actually direct opposites of how they were portrayed in TOS. TOS Klingons seemed to have no concept of honor at all, while the Romulans seemed to have plenty. That dynamic arguably got reversed in TNG, as those Klingons were influenced by Ron Moore reading an old Trek novel about Klingons where the concept of them having an honor code was first conceptualized. And the Romulans ended up being the underhanded fascistic Soviet-analogues that the TOS Klingons used to be.

 

[MurphyCooper]

I mean, the Klingons on the original series are the sneaky, treacherous ones, and the Romulans are the ones focused on honor (though more a soldier's honor than the "warrior's honor" the Klingons would have). Honestly, your proposal would be more in character based on what we had already seen.

That's pretty much why I bring this up. The Klingons being sneaky treacherous raiders, etc make more sense from the TOS concept. Don't get me wrong, I love the TNG take on Klingons, but my idea is just more in line with how TOS was.

The whole idea of having Worf as a crewmember came from TOS's "Errand of Mercy" where it was predicted that humans and Klingons would end up as allies. Despite Roddenberry not wanting Klingons on the show at all (or Romulans for that matter, as he did not want to revisit aliens from TOS because he envisioned TNG as a reboot, not a sequel), the prevailing attitude was that the Klingons were now our friends, and the Romulans were still the bad guys.

Now with that said, the actual portrayal of the Klingons and Romulans in TNG were actually direct opposites of how they were portrayed in TOS. TOS Klingons seemed to have no concept of honor at all, while the Romulans seemed to have plenty. That dynamic arguably got reversed in TNG, as those Klingons were influenced by Ron Moore reading an old Trek novel about Klingons where the concept of them having an honor code was first conceptualized. And the Romulans ended up being the underhanded fascistic Soviet-analogues that the TOS Klingons used to be.

I am so glad that Roddenberry's original vision for TNG didn't come to pass. TNG being a reboot would have been a huge loss for Star Trek.

So what would it have been like if the "reversal" didn't occur, and if they were more in line with their original characterizations, but in TNG?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I suppose one thing about swapping their cultures is that the obvious question is "how did it change so fundamentally in 100 years?" To which the answer is:

a) It didn't - they were never really the monolith you thought/were led to believe they were; or
b) there's a story that could be written about the change and how it came about

 

[somebuddyX]

Absolutely. You just have to write up scenarios of how they would come to be on opposite sides. Like I thought one way the Kelvin timeline could go differently than Prime is to have the Romulans and Federation reach some kind of accord after what happened with Nero, and this in turn puts the Klingons into defense mode over this new alliance.

 

[MurphyCooper]

Absolutely. You just have to write up scenarios of how they would come to be on opposite sides. Like I thought one way the Kelvin timeline could go differently than Prime is to have the Romulans and Federation reach some kind of accord after what happened with Nero, and this in turn puts the Klingons into defense mode over this new alliance.

How would that have effected things in terms of TNG? With Worf?

 

[Dukhat]

So what would it have been like if the "reversal" didn't occur, and if they were more in line with their original characterizations, but in TNG?

The Klingons would not have looked like they did in TOS, because we had the TMP & The Search for Spock showing how the Klingons would look and act prior to their appearance in TNG. TSFS basically showed them as space pirates, long-haired thugs who were just flying around willy-nilly, picking fights with whoever they felt like, and answering to nobody. Just being generic cardboard bad guys in TNG, I doubt that depiction would have lasted long before they either stopped using them or tried to develop them more (which is basically what happened anyway.)

As for the Romulans, since they didn't appear in the four TOS films prior to TNG, we only have Balance of Terror and The Enterprise Incident for source material. I personally never liked the depiction of the Romulans in TNG and felt that their portrayal in TOS was far superior. The TNG Romulans had that cardboard quality and lack of development that I mentioned above. They all looked the same, acted the same, and had no real unique qualities other than just being generic militaristic soldiers. Even Tomalak failed to provide an endearing villain other than Katsulas's good acting skills.

 

[somebuddyX]

How would that have effected things in terms of TNG? With Worf?

Not sure. Those were two separate thoughts, that "you could make something happen with the right story", and "here's this similar idea I had for Kelvin."

 

[Nerys Myk]

I mean, the Klingons on the original series are the sneaky, treacherous ones, and the Romulans are the ones focused on honor (though more a soldier's honor than the "warrior's honor" the Klingons would have). Honestly, your proposal would be more in character based on what we had already seen.

The Romulans' "signature move" is a cloaking device and a sneak attack. Sneaky and treacherous, Also a leader who wants to start a war simply to stoke his own ego. Yeah, the BOT Commander seemed to be an honorable guy but even he recognized his leader and society weren't the best. The EI Commander took great pleasure at Spock turning "traitor. " (OTOH, the Federation is pretty sneaking in that episode.)

The Klingons in TOS weren't usually the nicest of people, but I think Kor and Koloth had some style. Kang actually approaches the TNG version of the Klingons. This I assume is a change in attitude of the show's creatives. An attempt to move away from the "Soviet stand ins" of the first two seasons. Who knows, if the show had continued we could have seen some more nuanced Klingons.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think if the Klingons and Romulans had been more like TOS on TNG, I don't think it would have to change all that much. I perceived the TOS Klingons, or at least Kor, being more in pursuit of victory rather than honor and they were very intelligent and dangerous in that effort. I think the TOS film Klingons actually stay more true, especially guys like Torg or Chang, even the Klingon ambassador. So you could have Worf still have a different code he lives by compared to other Federation members and the conflict that brings. I often wonder about them as like the Nietzscheans from the series Andromeda. The Romulans could be more honorable but still be the arrogant pricks you see in "The Neutral Zone." Would these guys have still done attacks on Narendra III and Khitomer? Maybe, they did do sneak attacks on Federation bases in "Balance of Terror" after all. They could still oppose a Federation-Klingon alliance for the possible danger to their Empire.

 

[suarezguy]

The Klingons were both more popular and more interesting, especially a Klingon being in the Starfleet crew sounded a lot more interesting. Both in the original series benefited from being pretty rarely used but the Klingons survived and did well with the increased focus in the films. A Romulan in the new crew would probably feel a little too adjacent to but trying (too hard?) to be different from Vulcans, already at least on verge of being overused, and probably make the overly-inspired-by-the Romans aspects too obvious and maybe dated, a just warrior/belligerent culture but with also valorizing honor, tempered by now being allies with Federation and one particular character now also respecting Federation values seems a lot more promising.

The Romulans ended up working alright as recurring antagonists but did have a bit of just being the other now still adversary race, a bit generic opponents who were just upset about having any rival powers at all.

 

[Leviathan]

It worked in ST III...

 

[TheAdmiralty]

I think a Romulan on the bridge would have felt too much like Spock, the idea for Worf is that he was truly alone in Starfleet so he needed a more alien appearance than just pointy ears.

Also as noted above the Organians said the Klingons and Federation would work together in the future so I would have thought it was a nice touch at the time to put a Klingon on the crew at the time the show debuted.

Maybe not a popular opinion, but smooth forehead TOS Klingons were more interesting than TOS Romulans or later Klingons for the reasons given here. And for the same reason 24th century Romulans are more interesting.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Would it have been possible for the Klingons and Romulans to swap roles in TNG?

Did you realise that the Klingons of "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock" were originally scripted as Romulans, hence the scene with Valkris accepting death/suicide at the completion of her mission (similar to TOS and TAS Romulan episodes); the taking of prisoners (in ST II Kirk had told Saavik that the Klingons didn't take prisoners); a Bird of Prey that can cloak; and all of Kruge's bluster about Honor.

At some point in the evolution from "Return to Genesis" to "The Search for Spock", the Romulans became Klingon pirates who steal a Romulan vessel, to Klingons on a Klingon ship. Probably because ST III was aimed at a cinema audience, not just Trek fans. You don't want viewers wondering why Kirk and crew are facing off with treacherous pointy-eared aliens who happen to look just like the deceased Spock, Spock's father and Saavik.

TOS Romulans were the ones committed to Honor. Most of the Klingons we meet on TNG are far removed from the ones we knew in TOS.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TOS Romulans were the ones committed to Honor.

Were they? Sure a couple seemed to have some honor, but on the the whole they were sneaky and treacherous. Their signature tech is a cloaking device used in a sneak attack. We like conflate the actions of the BoT Commander with Romulans in general.

 

[MurphyCooper]

Did you realise that the Klingons of "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock" were originally scripted as Romulans, hence the scene with Valkris accepting death/suicide at the completion of her mission (similar to TOS and TAS Romulan episodes); the taking of prisoners (in ST II Kirk had told Saavik that the Klingons didn't take prisoners); a Bird of Prey that can cloak; and all of Kruge's bluster about Honor.

At some point in the evolution from "Return to Genesis" to "The Search for Spock", the Romulans became Klingon pirates who steal a Romulan vessel, to Klingons on a Klingon ship. Probably because ST III was aimed at a cinema audience, not just Trek fans. You don't want viewers wondering why Kirk and crew are facing off with treacherous pointy-eared aliens who happen to look just like the deceased Spock, Spock's father and Saavik.

TOS Romulans were the ones committed to Honor. Most of the Klingons we meet on TNG are far removed from the ones we knew in TOS.

I am well aware of that. I am asking if they swapped roles in TNG, and remained "swapped".

 

[Therin of Andor]

I am well aware of that. I am asking if they swapped roles in TNG, and remained "swapped".

Well, as I (and others) have said, in TOS it was the Romulans who claimed to have an honor code, but after ST III, it was the Klingons who had an honour code. The race changed in ST III but the dialogue from earlier script drafts remained.

I can't think of any examples of TNG Romulans claiming to have an honorary code.

I don't know how else to answer your question. I guess you are postulating yet another Alternate Universe. I think that vessel has long departed Spacedock.

Were they? Sure a couple seemed to have some honor, but on the the whole they were sneaky and treacherous.

Their honor was to other Romulans, not to less-honorable alien races. They would not consider themselves to be sneaky.

 

[Tosk]

Well, as I (and others) have said, in TOS it was the Romulans who claimed to have an honor code

Could you remind me when?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Their honor was to other Romulans, not to less-honorable alien races. They would not consider themselves to be sneaky.

Was it? The Centurion warns the Commander about Decius and his "connections."
How could they not? They a have a cloaking device!