Would "Ethics" Work If It's Pulaski?

[Trek Survivor]

I think Pulaski's initial reaction to Data was somewhat rude - and that's okay, we all make mistakes or think and say things we later may change our mind on. Pulaski actually had CHARACTER GROWTH across the season and it was great - she went from struggling to accept Data to being actively in his corner and forging a strong bond through episodes like Elementary Dear Data, Unnatural Selection, Pen Pals and Peak Performance.

Pulaski was great, one of many reasons season 2 is my fave season!

 

[flyerdog]

Funny thing about Pulaski, is that from the beginning, she was never as intimidated by Picard as the rest of the crew, she would speak her mind and argue with him openly...and later Dr. Crusher morphed into that as well...

 

[Mojochi]

When Data objects to the mispronunciation of his name by Pulaski, asserting that it does matter to him, & when he gives her a deliberate look, at her referring to him as not alive, it's clear that despite him not being emotionally effected enough to consider him suitably offended, by our standards, Data does take exception to the ways she's treating him. That means it's not only rude by general social morays, it's also personally objectionable to him.

If it wasn't rude to call him "it" or "not alive", then why does she finally apologize? "It does know how to do these these things, doesn't it?" Is not even addressing him directly, & isn't even recognizing him as a being or as an officer, which he is clearly categorized as both, as she already knows.

There was still great debate at that time as to whether or not Data was, in fact, sentient. His service record may have referred to him as "alive," but Starfleet also viewed him as property until "The Measure of a Man," and felt perfectly comfortable ordering him to submit to disassembly.

No, they didn't. One solitary man, in the entirety of Starfleet, was continuing to assert that he was not sentient, heavily biased by his own goals of planning to use him, & needing him to be denied agency to further that goal. He was then able to rope a single admiral into backing him, on the vague basis of harmless work to be conducted by him.

It's also suspicious that they tried to slip the orders through, rather perfunctorily, out in the middle of nowhere, at a station with no adequate legal representation, right when that admiral had just appointed a previously resigned judge, who'd last been known to fail at prosecuting Picard in a court martial.

It's suspiciously as if they deliberately brought her out of retirement, specifically because they expected her, of all people, to side with them against Picard bringing objections, if it came to that. Fortunately, she wasn't that easily corraled, even though she initially found a precedent that could be used to rule him property, but that had not been his status until she did that, & forced a challenge. Initially, he was granted the status of a Starfleet officer. You don't let the ship's property hold 2nd officer rank.

Even Riker, in "Encounter at Farpoint," admitted that Data being a machine troubled him.

Data asked him if it troubled him, & he confessed to it troubling him "a little", and that was because of a misunderstanding of what he'd read in Data's file about him being a machine, & as such presuming his rank was honorary.

Heck, even as late as "Clues," Picard was sayinig Data would be "stripped down to his wires" to find out why he malfunctioned.

Too much this is misrepresented. He's very likely speaking hyperbolically, out of frustration, to remind him of his past struggles with his rights. He's not advocating that course of action. He's saying it as a caution, that there are people out there like Maddox or Haftel, who could make the case for doing so, in the event of another endangerment to the crew. (Brothers had to have caused quite the brouhaha back at HQ)

 

[Oddish]

However, calling Data "it" was inarguably rude. That's a hill I'll die on. And it wasn't a mild slight, like forgetting someone's name. Her comment questioned and belittled his very personhood. That's a massive insult. So even if it is the only true example of rudeness, it's still safe to say Pulaski was rude to Data. Maybe not continuously, but at least in one terrible instance.

Far be it from me to disapprove of dying on hills. But I think this kind of stems from a lack of subtlety, rather than an attempt to make Pulaski super-bad. Remember that the show was trying hard to appeal to the teen demographic.

I think Pulaski's initial reaction to Data was somewhat rude - and that's okay, we all make mistakes or think and say things we later may change our mind on. Pulaski actually had CHARACTER GROWTH across the season and it was great - she went from struggling to accept Data to being actively in his corner and forging a strong bond through episodes like Elementary Dear Data, Unnatural Selection, Pen Pals and Peak Performance.

Seems like a lot of people are having trouble with this... the thing that made Pulaski appalling at the start was what made her amazing.

 

[somebuddyX]

In one of General Grins recut episodes he had Pulaski in this role, in opposition to Crusher, when Worf was severely injured. But there she had to reattach Worf's head, so...

 

[SatrianiRules]

I agree the episode painted Dr. Russell badly with that scene with the casualties. It was trying too hard to paint her as the villain.

Frankly, the actual villain in the entire episode was Crusher. First, she was withholding one of her patients options and essentially forcing him to go down a path he did not want. That's pushing your values onto your patient, which is just wrong. Second, she declared in no uncertain terms she was not going to let Worf perform his ritual ceremony. Doesn't matter that the suicide was something she disagreed with. That is the patient's choice, not hers. And third, at the end, Crusher couldn't even pretend to be glad that Russell's therapy. And that's because, ultimately, Crusher didn't get her way and force Worf to go with her idea.



I never rooted for Beverly in that episode. She should have presented each of the options to Worf instead of just giving him the one option: Crusher's option. Crusher was in the wrong fir not bothering to give Worf the choice to begin with.

I think Crusher's main objection was the way in which the treatment was presented, she threw him a straw to grasp at when Worf was at his most vulnerable....typically there should have been a meeting between the medical professionals and command (if applicable) behind closed doors, where they provided a synopsis of the medical situation and then Russell could have proposed her treatment to Worf with full disclosure (20% success rate etc...or whatever the number was).

But Russell didn't do that, she interceded between MD and patient and offered a potentially false hope when the patient was at their most vulnerable, that is typically frowned upon and that IS pretty unethical.

 

[AntonyF]

She knew it was an android without emotions. A literal machine. You can't be rude to something that isn't alive and doesn't care. She came to change her opinion of him as she got to know him, and it was a learning experience, but it was never rude. There was never a rude intent.

And again, it was like 2 lines in an entire season, not enough to create the giant meme that exists on the topic.

Totally agreed. She didn't come and give the ship's computer a gender, so why would she give a gender to a walking computer? Her first instinct was on that level. People call Alexa a she and I'm now noticing Claude a he, but they're not gendered they are its. I'm actually quite deliberate in calling Alexa it not she.

One could argue that she's being sensitive in not gendering Data... it may not have a gender, it may not want a gender.

And he did, so she listened to that and fixed it in seconds.

The irony is that this was in the sentence as about "It does know how to do these things, doesn't it?" so people also prickle at the suggestion he's not capable (again something she doesn't know). Ironic as in the same episode Picard says "Mister Data, you must mean it's empty of matter. There's always some energy form at work." Which is just a different way of saying "You got it wrong." And he'd known Data for over a year at this point.

 

[Farscape One]

I think Crusher's main objection was the way in which the treatment was presented, she threw him a straw to grasp at when Worf was at his most vulnerable....typically there should have been a meeting between the medical professionals and command (if applicable) behind closed doors, where they provided a synopsis of the medical situation and then Russell could have proposed her treatment to Worf with full disclosure (20% success rate etc...or whatever the number was).

But Russell didn't do that, she interceded between MD and patient and offered a potentially false hope when the patient was at their most vulnerable, that is typically frowned upon and that IS pretty unethical.

But Crusher wasn't even entertaining Russell's idea at all and wasn't going to bother to let Worf know. Even if it's experimental, if the option is around and available, she should have given Worf both choices.

And she was also adamant about him not committing suicide... she was very clear in that. Which is also wrong to do because that is the patient's decision, not hers. Again, robbing her patient of freedom of choice.


And this isn't the first time she tries to impose her values on Worf. In "The Enemy", she tried multiple times to get Worf to donate his blood to the Romulan, instead of accepting his decision when he said no the first time. It's perfectly fine to try to convince him to do so during that initial conversation, but once he says "no", that should be the end of it. Not adding in later calling Worf to sickbay saying she 'thought it was important you see him one more time'. At least Picard understood Worf's personal right of choice and respected his decision and didn't order Worf to donate despite Worf telling him point blank that he would obey such an order.

(By the way, I have to wonder if she also ignored the Romulan's wishes because he said to Worf he would rather die than 'pollute my body with Klingon filth'. It wasn't established if she knew his wishes, but given her established behavior, I wouldn't be surprised if she just ignored what the Romulan said and would have kept trying to do it anyway.)

 

[Farscape One]

Totally agreed. She didn't come and give the ship's computer a gender, so why would she give a gender to a walking computer? Her first instinct was on that level. People call Alexa a she and I'm now noticing Claude a he, but they're not gendered they are its. I'm actually quite deliberate in calling Alexa it not she.

One could argue that she's being sensitive in not gendering Data... it may not have a gender, it may not want a gender.

And he did, so she listened to that and fixed it in seconds.

The irony is that this was in the sentence as about "It does know how to do these things, doesn't it?" so people also prickle at the suggestion he's not capable (again something she doesn't know). Ironic as in the same episode Picard says "Mister Data, you must mean it's empty of matter. There's always some energy form at work." Which is just a different way of saying "You got it wrong." And he'd known Data for over a year at this point.

Pulaski saying, "It does know how to do these things, doesn't it" was rude in two ways.

First, she called him 'it'. He was listed as alive (which she herself stated moments later), so not an 'it'.

Second, instead of asking him directly, "do you know how to do this", she asks the captain from the other side of the room (Picard was standing at the aft stations when Pulaski turned from right behind Data) that question. That's a very public display there.

What's more rude: asking someone if they know how to perform a task face to face or asking someone else from across the room that same question about the person while he is right next to you?


To her credit and having said all that, she DID immediately ask forgiveness from Data. And she was never like that again to him afterward. (In fact, became very much in his corner on several occasions. Her arc with Data was good character growth. She pretty much got more growth in one season than Crusher got in six.)

 

[SatrianiRules]

But Crusher wasn't even entertaining Russell's idea at all and wasn't going to bother to let Worf know. Even if it's experimental, if the option is around and available, she should have given Worf both choices.

And she was also adamant about him not committing suicide... she was very clear in that. Which is also wrong to do because that is the patient's decision, not hers. Again, robbing her patient of freedom of choice.


And this isn't the first time she tries to impose her values on Worf. In "The Enemy", she tried multiple times to get Worf to donate his blood to the Romulan, instead of accepting his decision when he said no the first time. It's perfectly fine to try to convince him to do so during that initial conversation, but once he says "no", that should be the end of it. Not adding in later calling Worf to sickbay saying she 'thought it was important you see him one more time'. At least Picard understood Worf's personal right of choice and respected his decision and didn't order Worf to donate despite Worf telling him point blank that he would obey such an order.

(By the way, I have to wonder if she also ignored the Romulan's wishes because he said to Worf he would rather die than 'pollute my body with Klingon filth'. It wasn't established if she knew his wishes, but given her established behavior, I wouldn't be surprised if she just ignored what the Romulan said and would have kept trying to do it anyway.)

Yes and these are all examples of what makes medical decisions so complicated and why you simply can't have a "one size fits all"....when it comes to care, and how all aspects of the patient must be considered.

and also illustrates how peoples' own beliefs can influence decisions either consciously or subconsciously.

With Crusher, I think she became mistrustful after her Worf antics and then the drug incident just sent her over the edge, thinking this woman can't be trusted at all

 

[AntonyF]

First, she called him 'it'. He was listed as alive (which she herself stated moments later), so not an 'it'.

Not all alive things are gendered - see the J'Naii. There are alive people in 2026 who don't go by gendered pronouns.

 

[Ragitsu]

Someone very much does not have a crush on Crusher .

 

[Set Harth]

First, she called him 'it'. He was listed as alive (which she herself stated moments later), so not an 'it'.

Technically alive things are "it"s too.

 

[Farscape One]

Not all alive things are gendered - see the J'Naii. There are alive people in 2026 who don't go by gendered pronouns.

And in "The Outcast", Riker tells Soran that calling someone 'it' is rude. Because Riker's correct.

Technically alive things are "it"s too.

Calling a person 'it' in their presence is still rude.

 

[CoveTom]

Pulaski saying, "It does know how to do these things, doesn't it" was rude in two ways.

First, she called him 'it'. He was listed as alive (which she herself stated moments later), so not an 'it'.

Just because something is alive doesn't mean it has a gender. The English language does not have a gender-neutral third person singular pronoun. That has been a part of the recent modern "pronoun debate" that we've had in society. "It" is the closest that we have. Some people might think that rude because it has the connotation of an object, but it's all we have.

 

[CoveTom]

And in "The Outcast", Riker tells Soran that calling someone 'it' is rude. Because Riker's correct.



Calling a person 'it' in their presence is still rude.

Whether Data is alive and whether Data is a person are two separate and distinct questions.

 

[AntonyF]

And in "The Outcast", Riker tells Soran that calling someone 'it' is rude. Because Riker's correct.

I think you're over simplifying. Because Riker admits he just tried to avoid personal pronouns entirely so was skirting the issue. Finally he struggles with it so much that he he asks Soran should he use "it".

Now you could argue that Riker is more tactful, as he asked Soran if they could be referred to as it. But it was the elephant on the room for him.

Pulaski should have perhaps asked, but her natural assumption was computers don't have genders. And there was nothing else in Starfleet that she'd have ever met for this to be an issue. She - like Riker's instinct was - was to reach for "it".

I mean do you use AI? Did you, the first time you used it, ask its pronoun preferences? I think people assign bad intent to Pulaski as they the viewer have seen Data and identify with him as a he.

Riker also didn't do his homework remember... he was assigned to COMMAND Data and didn't know his rank was earned properly.

The funny thing is that it was just literally once... she never deliberately mis-gendered him and once she knew he was assigned a gender she went with it. But of course with TV that will be there forever more watched again and again...

 

[SatrianiRules]

I mean do you use AI? Did you, the first time you used it, ask its pronoun preferences? I think people assign bad intent to Pulaski as they the viewer have seen Data and identify with him as a he.

Tasha Yar will tell you, Data is a <<Fully Functional>> "He"...

 

[Ragitsu]

DATA: Thank you. And, Commander, continue your work. When you are ready, I will still be here. I find some of what you propose intriguing.
(Data leaves)
MADDOX: He's remarkable.
PHILLIPA: You didn't call him "it".

 

[AntonyF]

Tasha Yar will tell you, Data is a <<Fully Functional>> "He"...

You can assign human attributes to sex toys. "I shall call you... Eduardo."

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