Worst lines of dialogue in Trek?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by BlueStuff, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    A flag is only that, a piece of cloth that only exists for the symbolic value superimposed on it. A flag serves no other purpose, in principle. (Well, you could perhaps try to use it as a jacket or a shopping bag but that's not what it's intended for). The tree is a living biological entity with its own independent existence, with a symbolic value superimposed on it. If you have to destroy it because it has become "soiled" in that symbolical sense, but only in that symbolic sense (biologically there's nothing wrong), it becomes more like a sacrifice, in my eyes, (an animal that had to be slaughtered because something in the symbolic, or at least immaterial domain went wrong, for example to "appease" a god).

    Besides, even if the flag has been soiled (but not damaged beyond repair), there is no objection to simply cleaning it according to that code, as I understand it, at least. Burning is only called for when the flag is so tattered that it cannot be used again. If they can think of that provision for a simple cloth, why can't it be done for a living thing?

    (And that's not even considering my own opinion, which would be that after the piece of cloth served its purpose as a flag and is now worn out, it simply loses to have that symbolic meaning and can be disposed of as seen fit; it's the symbol that is important, not the material object. Having to burn it in an "honourable" way would feel to me as symbolism taken a bit too far, but I'll agree that's personal.).
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  2. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Well, it is an episode of Enterprise, so some stupidity is to be expected.
     
  3. amp

    amp Commander Red Shirt

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    Honestly, I doubt that Braga and Berman thought about it that deeply. They just wanted the non-sequitur from Hoshi when she asks "Do we have a chainsaw on board?" right before the cut to commercial. And then later they we got the 'funny' visual of Archer with the beads in his hair while wielding the chainsaw.
     
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  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    ^ Well, the scene includes a shot of this PADD (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ritual_sectioning ) which Archer is consulting when sawing. So I would argue that him "sectioning" a tree of at least the exact same kind (an "alvera tree") was very much part of their explicit intention. If it was from the very beginning, or only a detail thrown in at the last instant for a bit more coherence, I can't say, of course.
     
  5. amp

    amp Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm almost positive that a PADD diagram like that would have been created by the art department as a part of the production process. I'd be very surprised if it was described in the script in any detail.
     
  6. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Even if it was planned from the very beginning, they probably didn't think very deeply into it. As amp wrote they probably just thought it was funny so they put it in the script.
    You can frequently see things in shows (even/especially serialized ones) where it's clear that somebody just wanted a scene they thought would be "cool" or "funny" but that doesn't make much/any sense withibln the larger fictional work or fails common logic.
     
  7. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    ^If you both say so, I'll believe you. It's just an insignificant detail anyway, and off topic, too, at that :)
     
  8. Trajet

    Trajet Commander Red Shirt

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    Isn't this a bit like referring to the United Federation of Planets as the Federal Federation?
     
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  9. Dr. San Guinary

    Dr. San Guinary Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Warp particles. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    From "Thine Own Self"

    DATA: "Counsellor, have you been promoted in my absence?"
    TROI: "That's right. Which means from now on you can call me sir."
    DATA: "Yes, sir."


    I hate everything about that exchange: calling women "sir", Data not being a commander himself, and the fact that I don't think Deanna passed the test (it was a test of character, not a puzzle to be solved). That plus Data would have simply wrecked it: "Do not worry, Geordi. I will repair the ODN conduit myself. The radiation will not harm me."
     
  11. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am redundently annoyed by the many redundent claims that the phrase "Klingon Imperial Empire' is redundent, so I will redundently refute that claim several times over.

    One) Isn't it common in English for words to have more than one meaning, and for more than one word to have the same meaning.

    So it is perfectly possible that :Imperial" is a translation of a Klingon adjective that is completely unrelated to the Klingon noun which is trnslated as "empire" in "kingon Imperial Empire"..

    Two) There were a number of separate Boer or Afrikaner states and republics in 19th century Africa - usually 2 or more at the same time. This is an example of a nationality or an ethnic group having more than one sovereign state at the same time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_Republics

    How many separate and independent soverign Greek city states were there in Classical Greece and around the Mediterranean? Tens. Possibly more than a hundred. So that is an example of an ethnic group or nationality having tens or even more than a hundred separate soverign states.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/greek-city-states/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Greek_cities

    In the present time there is North and South Korea, the Republic of China and the People's Republic of China, the former South and North Vietnam, and the former German Democratic Republic and Federal Republic of Germany. All showing that a nationality or ethnic group can have more than one soverign state at the same time.

    So if the Klingons are analogous to a nationality or an ethic group they can have more than one sovereign state.

    If Klingons are defined as a species of intelligent beings, scientists do not agree on more than one such species existing at the present time with political organizations which can be studied. I note that I have seen a historical article claiming that the total number of separate independent sovereign politcal entities among the human species has declined from about tens or hundreds of thousands several thosuand years ago to about 50 at one point in the 20th century and then increased to about 200 today. I believe the article calculated that there should be only one sovereign human government by about AD 4000 or so.

    So I suspect that various splinter groups of Klingons constantly found their own states which last for longer or shorter times. I think that Gorkon's Klingon realm was probably not the only Klingon realm in his time, though probably by far the most important, and that a lot of Klingon groups broke away from Gorkon's realm and founded their own realms after the events in Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country.

    So possibly there are a bunch of Klingon realms in the era of TNG with names like Klingon Imperial Republic, Klingon Royal Republic, Klingon Republican Republic, Klingon Imperial Kingdom, Klingon Royal Kingdom, Klingon Republican Kingdom, Klingon Imperial Empire, Klingon Royal Empire, and Klingon Republican Empire, to say nothing of the Klingon realms with long and complicted names.

    Three) What is the best example of an emipire in Earth history? There could be many possible examples, but one which many would choose would be the Roman Empire.

    The first emperor seized absolute power with his army, but pretened to be merely the mos tinfluential senator, and had the Senate and people grant him a number of Republican offices and powers to provide Repuliban justification for his authority. Thus Roman emperors were known by a number of different titels, such as: Princeps, Caesar, Imperator, Augustus, Pontifex Maximus, Dominus, etc.

    Often a heir to the throne or a junior emperor would be an Imperator Caesar, while a senior emperor would be an Imperator Caesar Augustus. This sort of implies that the word .Augustus, or the three word phrase .Imperator Caesar Augustus, should be considered to be the imperial title.

    In the Greek speaking east of the Roman Empire, hte imperial titles were often transliterated into the Greek alphabet. But they were also often translated into Greek words which were not very accurate translations.

    The Emperor was often called Basileus, which originally meant the king of a tiny Greek city state, but was then used in the sense of "King of the World", and very roughly equivalent to Emperor.

    And the Latin tittle of imperator was translated, not very accurately, into Greek as autokrator.

    By about AD 900 the title of the senior eastern emperor was usually Basileus kai Autokrator ton Rhomaion, which is usually translated as "emperor and Autocrat of the Romans". A more literal translation would be "King and Empreror of the Romans". Basileus kai Autokrator could be considere a three word phrase emeaning emperor, making the title "Emperor of the Romans", or it could be translated as "Emperor and Emperor of the Romans"..

    Charlemagne,the first Holy Roman Emperor, use a long title:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne#Imperial_title

    Imperator augustus was the title of the early Holy Roman Emperors. Imperator augustus could be interpreted as a two word phrase meaning "emperor"..Or it could be interpreted as "emperor emperor".

    By about 1200 the person elected future emperor used the title of Rex Romanourm et semper Augustus, which seems to translate as "King of the Romans and always Emperor". When and if he was crowned emperor in Rome by the pope, he used the title of Rex Romanourm et semper Augustuss, "Emperor of the Romans and always Emperor".

    I have seen semper Augustuss translated into English as "always august". And I suspect that was done by people who never suspected that that there could possibly have been redundently imperial imperius Roman Emperors.

    Four) So I get a little annoyed when peopel write that "Klingon imperial Empire" is redundent.

    What I don't like is the order of words in the phrase. It seems much more natural in the English language to write names like "Royal Klingon Republic" and "Demoratic Klingon Kingdom" and "Imperial Klingon Empire"

    So I wonder if the "Klinngon Imperial Empire" is named to show that it is different - being ruled by Klingons - from some other "imperial empires" which are known, such as the Romulan Imperial Empire, the Breen Imperial Empire, the Denubian imperial empire, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  12. The Haunted Toilet

    The Haunted Toilet scotpens Premium Member

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    ^^ All of which is interesting but irrelevant.

    The definition of "imperial" is "of or pertaining to an empire." Therefore, "imperial empire" is redundant.
     
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  13. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    Wesley’s experience in “Coming of Age” seems pretty conclusive that Starfleet’s weird psycho-torture tests are heavily customized and individually crafted to specifically traumatize the person taking them. Data’s version of the test would’ve been very different (and may even have had a different solution, if his proctor thought he wouldn’t hesitate to make the rational call of sacrificing a friend to save the ship, and so needed Data to demonstrate another aspect of command ability).
     
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  14. Laughing Dragon

    Laughing Dragon Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The first season of TNG had tons but I can't remember them off hand oddly enough.
     
  15. Annorax849

    Annorax849 Commander Red Shirt

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    Also Last Outpost, Data and Riker basically having the same conversation twice in a row. Riker says the Ferengi sound like his ancestors, Data tells him not to be so optimistic.
     
  16. Agent 13

    Agent 13 270 Rear Admiral

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    RAND: He's the real spook. Suppose he's going space happy or something? (“The Man Trap”)
    [​IMG]
    SPOCK: The, er, impostor had some interesting qualities, wouldn't you say, Yeoman? (“The Enemy Within”)
    [​IMG]
    DESALLE: Maybe we can't break it, but I'll bet you credits to navy beans we can put a dent in it. (“Catspaw”)
    [​IMG]
    ADAM: Oh, Herbert, you are stiff! (“The Way to Eden”)
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Laughing Dragon

    Laughing Dragon Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Not so much dialogue as a one-liner.
     
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  18. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Commodore

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    But an awesome one-liner. That and "PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED!!"
     
  19. The Haunted Toilet

    The Haunted Toilet scotpens Premium Member

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    What's wrong with those lines?

    That's what she said!

    (Sorry, I can never resist the obvious.) :shrug:
     
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  20. Agent 13

    Agent 13 270 Rear Admiral

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    The line from “The Man Trap” sounds like corny space opera that would have been hard for even Nelson Bond to write with a straight face. It doesn’t track with the hard-edged, timeless realism that colors the dialogue between the leads throughout the episode. And the whole Rand/Sulu scene doesn’t sound at all like George Clayton Johnson.

    As for “Catspaw,” well I guess I just don’t care for updating 20th century cliches to fit into the 23rd. Or maybe it was Barrier’s line reading.

    Out of 80 episodes, though, these are only ones that make me wince.* YMMV, of course.

    *All of the hippie speak sets my teeth on edge, but that’s true of Lost in Space, Dragnet, and any other show that couldn’t get down the idioms of the times they were written in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021