Worst Episode of TAS Part Two

[Kegek]

Besides, it also alters the tone of that episode and the show. TAS could be quite goofy when it wanted to be, and a gigantic Spock clone was merely one such occasion. I liked it.

If you wanted to alter something, then the accidental colouration of the Kzinti as pink is as good a choice as any.

 

[Michael]

If you wanted to alter something, then the accidental colouration of the Kzinti as pink is as good a choice as any.

THAT'S what I might call "fixing".

 

[Therin of Andor]

Magicks of Megas-Tu for me. Nothing particularly good about that one.

I went with that as well. All the others have some great stuff. (But I did like noticing that Arex has customized wooden stocks for his extra limbs!)

 

[Christopher]

Besides, it also alters the tone of that episode and the show. TAS could be quite goofy when it wanted to be, and a gigantic Spock clone was merely one such occasion. I liked it.

I'm sure the idea wasn't to be "goofy" -- the idea was to take advantage of the freedom of the animation medium to do things that would be prohibitive in live-action. A mere clone would be easy to do in live-action, so they amped it up by making it a giant clone. That's the same reason the Phylosians were done as plant-people rather than just humanoids. (I mean, come on, there's absolutely no story reason for them to be plants -- it's just exotica for its own sake.)

 

[FalTorPan]

What do you mean — fixed? It's a major plot point. Why should they fix it?

I think he's suggesting that the story point of the clone be kept, but that it's unnecessary for the clone to be depicted as a giant.

But that would not be "fixing" — it would be "changing". The giant Spock clone is not only visually shown, it is also refered to in dialog. I think they shouldn't alter the original episode.

If the V'ger cloud can shrink from over 82 AUs in diameter to over 2 AUs in diameter as a "fix," then the Spock clone's size can be "fixed," too.

 

[Kegek]

I'm sure the idea wasn't to be "goofy" -- the idea was to take advantage of the freedom of the animation medium to do things that would be prohibitive in live-action.

And doing it in a silly and fanciful way. Hence, as you've noted, the Phylosians. The same applies to Bem from the episode of the same name.

 

[Christopher]

^^Yes, some of the things they did turned out silly, but my point is that they weren't specifically trying for such a tone. You said they could be goofy "when they wanted to be," and I dispute that they wanted to. On the contrary, they were trying to make a show that was just like the live-action Star Trek, only shorter, less violent and sexy, and with an unlimited FX budget.

And let's face it, TOS had plenty of goofy ideas -- Earth-parallel planets, aliens recreating a haunted house, giant Greek gods, Flint shrinking the Enterprise to toy size, etc. But that's more a sign of the innocence of that era of SFTV than a sign that they were deliberately trying to be campy or risible. A lot of what looks silly to us in these more sophisticated times probably looked a lot better to audiences in the '60s and '70s.

 

[Kegek]

^^Yes, some of the things they did turned out silly, but my point is that they weren't specifically trying for such a tone. You said they could be goofy "when they wanted to be," and I dispute that they wanted to. On the contrary, they were trying to make a show that was just like the live-action Star Trek, only shorter, less violent and sexy, and with an unlimited FX budget.

And silly and often goofy - like, as you point out yourself, the original show.

And let's face it, TOS had plenty of goofy ideas -- Earth-parallel planets, aliens recreating a haunted house, giant Greek gods, Flint shrinking the Enterprise to toy size, etc. But that's more a sign of the innocence of that era of SFTV than a sign that they were deliberately trying to be campy or risible. A lot of what looks silly to us in these more sophisticated times probably looked a lot better to audiences in the '60s and '70s.

What's so sophisticated about modern times? There's plenty of sophisticated entertainment available from the 1970s, 60s, and earlier. My grandfather, who was alive in the 1960s, was fluent in Latin and translated texts in his spare time; I can't read two sentences. Literacy in Latin sui generis has declined.

What also seems to be implicit in this statement is there's something wrong about entertainment being goofy, silly, or campy; or that such material was taken more seriously then than it is now. I find this all exceedingly doubtful. I enjoy TOS and TAS, but I'm not going to pretend they took themselves more seriously then they actually did, and that's part of the reason I enjoyed each. A glumly serious TAS with the mission statement you suggest could easily be nigh-unwatchable.

 

[Christopher]

^^But the whole idea behind TOS was to make a science-fiction TV show that wasn't just an exercise in camp and goofy kid stuff, that treated SF as something intelligent rather than dumbing it down like the Irwin Allen shows (the dominant genre shows of the day) did. And the whole idea behind TAS was to make an animated adaptation that was respectful to the tone and approach of the original series, rather than dumbing it down for kids the way every studio except Filmation wanted to do. Whether I think there's anything wrong with being goofy (which I don't, depending on the context) is irrelevant. The point is about what the creators of the show itself intended. And we know for a documented fact that being deliberately goofy or campy was the last thing they wanted, that it was the precise opposite of their goals in creating the series.

 

[Kegek]

^^But the whole idea behind TOS was to make a science-fiction TV show that wasn't just an exercise in camp and goofy kid stuff, that treated SF as something intelligent rather than dumbing it down like the Irwin Allen shows (the dominant genre shows of the day) did.

Of course. But while TOS took itself more seriously than many of its contemporaries, it doesn't take itself that seriously. It has less silliness and less camp, but it doesn't dispense with them altogether. It knows that space Romans are a silly but cost-effective idea; and then it proceeds to wrap an interesting drama with elements satirising TV around the notion. It gave a man pointed ears and declared he was an alien; it was willing to give him a tortured backstory and intriguing culture - but at the same time make unsubtle jabs about his selfsame ears.

Likewise TAS. TAS took itself relatively seriously when compared to some of its competitors, but it was also willing to indulge in silly and goofy material. I'm not saying that was always the intent. They probably didn't intend for the romantic dialogue in "The Jihad" to be so utterly ridiculous, that was doubtless the fault of bad writing. "Yesteryear" is an obvious example of an episode which takes its premise dead seriously. But "The Infinite Vulcan" is a silly high-concept episode that seems quite content with its silly, high-concept nature. If Walter Koenig set out with the sombre intention of making a grim Chekhovian chamber drama about genetic engineering gone amuck, would he really have written about a planet with a race of plants and giant clones?

 

[Christopher]

Of course. But while TOS took itself more seriously than many of its contemporaries, it doesn't take itself that seriously. It has less silliness and less camp, but it doesn't dispense with them altogether. It knows that space Romans are a silly but cost-effective idea; and then it proceeds to wrap an interesting drama with elements satirising TV around the notion. It gave a man pointed ears and declared he was an alien; it was willing to give him a tortured backstory and intriguing culture - but at the same time make unsubtle jabs about his selfsame ears.

You're blurring different aspects of humor together. "Bread and Circuses" did not mock the idea of alien Romans; it presented that concept in a straightforward manner but used it as a vehicle for making fun of our own media culture. And the occasional barbs directed against Spock's ears were not the writers' way of saying that the concept thereof was intrinsically silly; that's you projecting your own opinions onto others. Nobody in 1964-9 would've thought there was anything particularly silly about humanoid aliens with pointed ears, at least as a fictional device; humanoid aliens were quite common in the prose SF of the era, and even Arthur C. Clarke himself, master of hard SF, made frequent use of them, as did many of his peers. Perceptions change from generation to generation.

But "The Infinite Vulcan" is a silly high-concept episode that seems quite content with its silly, high-concept nature. If Walter Koenig set out with the sombre intention of making a grim Chekhovian chamber drama about genetic engineering gone amuck, would he really have written about a planet with a race of plants and giant clones?

You're overanalyzing it. As I've already said, writers for TAS were told to write stories that couldn't be told in live-action. The things you describe were included specifically to take advantage of the possibilities of animation. There's no need to read any other agendas into it than that. You're making the mistake often made by critics, namely to assume that creators have the same priorities and ways of looking at a work that their critics do, and that just because a critic can read something into a work, it necessarily follows that the creator intended it.

 

[Michael]

^ I find it hard to believe that some of TOS sillier episodes didn't at least partially adhere to camp on purpose. (Come on, "The Way To Eden" and "The Gamesters of Triskelion" are meant to be serious?)

 

[Christopher]

Let's not confuse the general with the specific. I'm not saying they didn't do deliberately comedic stories, I just dispute the assumption that the concepts in "The Infinite Vulcan" were intended to be campy rather than simply done to take advantage of the animation medium. It's been reported many times that the writers of TAS were encouraged, even required, to include visual elements that would've been prohibitive or impossible to achieve in live action. We know that whole scripts (such as Russell Bates' "The Patient Parasites," reprinted in Star Trek: The New Voyages 2) were rejected for failing to meet that goal. So I think that approaching the question in terms of seriousness vs. comedy, rather than suitability for live action vs. suitability for animation, is simply missing the mark.

 

[Kegek]

[
You're blurring different aspects of humor together. "Bread and Circuses" did not mock the idea of alien Romans; it presented that concept in a straightforward manner but used it as a vehicle for making fun of our own media culture.

Evidently I wasn't clear enough. I said they got a silly idea, and then used it dramatically, sprinkled with elements satirising TV. They treated it relatively seriously, but dolorously.

Nobody in 1964-9 would've thought there was anything particularly silly about humanoid aliens with pointed ears,

An unsubstantiated generalisation. It is a convention of sci-fi; then as now; but that is not proof that it could not and was found faintly ridiculous. Hence Star Trek's contemporary categorisation of the show 'with that guy with the ears'.

at least as a fictional device; humanoid aliens were quite common in the prose SF of the era, and even Arthur C. Clarke himself, master of hard SF, made frequent use of them, as did many of his peers.

Clarke also satirised the idea. Cf: "How We Went to Mars." Again, use of a convention does not mean obliviousness to its faults.

You're making the mistake often made by critics, namely to assume that creators have the same priorities and ways of looking at a work that their critics do

Your error, not mine. That the show had a level of seriousness I grant; that the show was as humourlessly serious as you propose is demonstratably false. Giant Spock is a silly and indeed campy idea; and the reason is not because the writers were so totally oblivious as to this consequence as to be utterly stupid; nor is it because they existed in a culture so allegedly radically different it might be another planet. TAS included plenty of silly, campy touches throughout its run.

 

[Kagan]

March 31st isn't far away...in fact...about 18 hours til the poll closes.
We still could have a run-off!!!!
Three eps are sitting with 8 or 9 votes.

 

[jayrath]

Shoot, I loved Kirk meeting Apollo and Lincoln on TOS. Can you get goofier than that? If it's well done and the audience is prepared step by step, I can stand any outrageous story.

 

[blakbyrd]

The Magicks of Megas-Tu

 

[Mallory]

I knew someone was going to jump in with a last minute vote. I just didn't know who. Well played blakbyrd!