Worst command decisions by Captain James T. Kirk

[JonnyQuest037]

The script may say it was within his authority, but the idea that a victim and principal witness in a criminal case could have any involvement in the prosecution or disposal of that case is absurd. It would mean automatic recusal in any credible justice system today. Imagine if a district attorney's office was taken over by terrorists and the DA was tied up, beaten and threatened with death. The case would be handed off to another jurisdiction to prosecute, for reasons I hope would be obvious.

And Picard and Riker wouldn't be arguing the pros and cons of Data being a sentient being. It's not dramatically interesting to suddenly show a trial being conducted by characters who are completely unfamiliar to the viewing audience. You just have to give the show leeway on this.

But TOS very much depicted an "Age of Sail" type of galaxy where Kirk often didn't turn people over to the authorities because he was the authorities. It was a much less bureaucratic galaxy than that depicted on TNG. Starfleet Command wasn't always readily available via comscreen and there wasn't a Starbase around every corner. Many of the places that Kirk called on hadn't seen and Earth ship in years. And everyone on the ship had been victimized by Khan to some degree. When it came to the final authority in the matter, Kirk was it.

 

[J.T.B.]

And Picard and Riker wouldn't be arguing the pros and cons of Data being a sentient being. It's not dramatically interesting to suddenly show a trial being conducted by characters who are completely unfamiliar to the viewing audience. You just have to give the show leeway on this.

No I don't. It's not a deal-breaker for the episode for me, but I don't find it at all believable.

But TOS very much depicted an "Age of Sail" type of galaxy where Kirk often didn't turn people over to the authorities because he was the authorities. It was a much less bureaucratic galaxy than that depicted on TNG. Starfleet Command wasn't always readily available via comscreen and there wasn't a Starbase around every corner. Many of the places that Kirk called on hadn't seen and Earth ship in years. And everyone on the ship had been victimized by Khan to some degree. When it came to the final authority in the matter, Kirk was it.

That's not how things worked in the age of sail, either. Ships' captains were governed by laws which specified exactly whom they had jurisdiction over, which crimes they could punish on their own authority, what those punishments could be, and which crimes had to be tried at a court-martial made up of several captains. More believable to me was the situation in "Mudd's Women" when Kirk took Mudd into custody to deliver him to the authorities with jurisdiction.

 

[Henoch]

There's more here than just Khan. There's Khan and his 72 other supermen who are all revived. There's no way Kirk and the (usually inept) security force could watch that many prisoners (each being the equivalent to 5 normal men) for any length of time. Best get them off the ship ASAP. Sea Captains have marooned groups of mutineers with supplies on deserted islands in the past. Of course, they usually report it to the authorities once they get back on station. Maybe Kirk did report it, and Starfleet agreed with his recommendation to leave them be.

 

[J.T.B.]

There's more here than just Khan. There's Khan and his 72 other supermen who are all revived. There's no way Kirk and the (usually inept) security force could watch that many prisoners (each being the equivalent to 5 normal men) for any length of time. Best get them off the ship ASAP. Sea Captains have marooned groups of mutineers with supplies on deserted islands in the past. Of course, they usually report it to the authorities once they get back on station. Maybe Kirk did report it, and Starfleet agreed with his recommendation to leave them be.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the end of "Space Seed," when Kirk dismissed all charges against Khan, McGivers and co.

 

[BK613]

I think the hearing at the end just formalizes what has already been agreed to. I think Kirk, Spock, Khan and maybe McGivers walk into that room knowing what was going down. One thing that's always bothered me is, What if one or more of the 72 didn't want to go? We think of them as "Khan's followers" but legally they would be treated as individuals, would they not? Shouildn't Kirk be having a bunch more hearings?

 

[Tarek71]

But where is that location?

Asked and answered. And in 2019 we have no difficulty locating, tracking and distinguishing Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, etc. The sensors would map the entire system. The star, every planet, asteroid, etc. This is an already mapped system. There are dozens of metrics that would tell them which planet was which. Mass, density, composition, volume, diameter, axial tilt, orbital speed, orbital inclination, distance to the star, atmospheric density and composition. No possibility exists for mistaking them, and the sensors would find them with no difficulty at all. If something happened to Mars, it would be detected by the sensors immediately and there would be no chance to mistaking Earth for the very, very different planet Mars.

And when you establish the location of your location by scanning it, scanning for anything else would be an absurd waste of time.

No it wouldnt. It is absolutely essential for you to scan 360 degrees, 24/7/365. That is how navigation works, and that is what is actually done in the real world. And the scan would identify which planet was which quickly and very easily. They cannot and would not be mistaken for each other. There are dozens and dozens of identifying characteristics that easily distinguish even those planets that have some similarities like Earth and Venus or Uranus and Neptune. A planetary migration by Neptune would make it no harder to find it, identify as Neptune (not Uranus) and track it.

 

[Tarek71]

If a planet explodes in the galaxy, and there's nobody around to see, does it leave debris?

Even if a Jupiter sized Pac-Man flew threw the CA system and Gobbled up CA6 and flew away leaving zero debris, they still wouldn't mistake CA5 for CA6, any more than the magical disappearance of Saturn would cause you to mistake Jupiter for Saturn.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Maybe Kirk did report it, and Starfleet agreed with his recommendation to leave them be.

Kirk absolutely reported it. What we see at the end of "Space Seed" is an official hearing. Everyone's in their dress uniforms and Uhura is recording the proceedings. The first two lines of the scene:

UHURA: Record tapes engaged and ready, Captain.
KIRK: This hearing is now in session. Under the authority vested in me by Starfleet Command, I declare all charges and specifications in this matter have been dropped.

And after Khan and McGivers' fates are decided, Kirk says, "This hearing is closed." He obviously wasn't doing all of that pomp and circumstance for shits and giggles. And since Kirk also states on the record that he's acting under the authority vested in him by Starfleet Command, he was absolutely within his rights to do what he did.

Really, the scene can't get any clearer than that. I don't know why so many fans interpret the ending of "Space Seed" as Kirk somehow going rogue and doing something he wasn't supposed to do. Is it just because TWOK says he was such a big rule breaker that they assume Kirk's defying orders even when he obviously isn't?

What we don't know is if Kirk actually promised Khan that someone from Starfleet would check up on them. Considering Khan's insanity and paranoia, I'm inclined to think not. Khan wasn't exactly a reliable witness when Terrell and Chekov found him. But in Khan's addled mind, that became, "Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on our progress." In Khan's mind, Kirk was responsible for everything that had gone wrong for Khan.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Hell, continuing this train of thought even further, what if Ceti Alpha VI never exploded? After all, we only have Khan's word that it did, and there's never a line of dialogue from one of the Reliant's crew about a missing planet. Spock himself describes the planet as "habitable, although a bit savage, somewhat inhospitable" at the end of "Space Seed." What if Ceti Alpha V was just much harsher than Khan and his followers were expecting, and in Khan's deluded mind it was because Ceti Alpha VI exploded and radically changed the environment?

The more I think about this, the more I like it. Captain Terrell and the Reliant crew weren't so incompetent that they didn't notice that an entire planet was missing. Khan was so out of his mind at that point that he imagined Ceti Alpha VI exploded.

 

[DonIago]

^That was an explanation worthy of Timo. I tip my hat to you.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

^That was an explanation worthy of Timo. I tip my hat to you.

No, NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I take it back, I take it back!!!!

 

[johnnybear]

The only explanation I've got is that the Ceti Alpha system had not been thoroughly explored and the Reliant had less information on that area of space than other Starships!
JB

 

[Mytran]

The only explanation I've got is that the Ceti Alpha system had not been thoroughly explored and the Reliant had less information on that area of space than other Starships!
JB

I think that is probably the best explanation for many of the unknown factors in that part of the film. As mentioned in the novelisation, the Reliant only had the data from a decades old probe to go by and no way to verify its accuracy until a ship went there in person (at which point they would ignore the probe data if it was contradicted by something right there in front of them!)

I do like the skepticism about CA6 exploding too - it's a planet, after all! Planets do not routinely explode of their own accord and if it was that unstable then Spock really ought to have detected it with his sensors
Perhaps a massive external threat that went straight for CA6 then?
Maybe
Or maybe an extinction level asteroid hit CA5 and Khan just made his best guess. They were in no position to conduct accurate astronomical observations after all.

The end result is the same: CA5 is reduced to a near lifeless husk of its former self, just what the Genesis project was looking for

 

[Tarek71]

None of that would change the fact that Reliant would not confuse them. What actually caused the mass extinction event on CA5 wouldnt change what planet they thought it was. Just as you would not mistake Earth for Venus if an extinction level event happened on Earth. It would still be easily identifiable as Earth (and not Venus). They knew Khan was on CA5, where Chekov said he should have stayed. They mistook it for a different planet, which is complete nonsense. Even our technology would not be fooled.

 

[johnnybear]

Especially if Chekov WAS ON the Enterprise during Khan's first visit to the ship?
JB

 

[Mytran]

Especially if Chekov WAS ON the Enterprise during Khan's first visit to the ship?
JB

Lower decks officers may not be privvy to every destination the ship goes to though. Certainly they would not have reason to remember planets unless they were directly involved somehow

 

[johnnybear]

But with Spock's contamination of this young man?
JB

 

[Commishsleer]

Yeah he would.

Yes I have to agree that anyone killing someone arbitrarily to save someone else would still be in big trouble.
Although does it differ that much to the Galileo 7 situation where Spock may have arbitrarily picked someone to stay behind to save the others?

Maybe less a case of head towards a known Ceti Alpha Six, and more head toward any planet that just happens to be in the star's inhabitable zone, and wasn't known to have life.

CA5 was a known life bearing planet and so Terrell dismissed it, without examining the planet's records beyond that fact.

CA6 wasn't a known life bearing planet, it was in the inhabitable zone, so Terrell head toward (supposedly) CA6. If it wasn't in the exact orbit that was previously surveyed ... so what.

Why bother looking at the rest of the system?

Terrell didn't care, he just wanted the assignment over with. That much was extremely clear from the movie.

I've never bought in to the idea that Kirk-Starfleet-Federation kept secret the fact that Kirk set up a impromptu prison colony on CA5.

There's supposed to be thousands of systems capable of bearing life in the TOS era. Obviously this system is way out of the regular space traffic lanes so no-one would normally want to go there. If Terrell gets a report saying instead of 10 planets there were now 9 planets in the system what does he care. He's not out there to investigate missing planets. All he wants to do is find a planet that meets a certain criteria and then get on with "some real work", "a holiday" or "some shore leave". Who knows?
Planets and star systems are probably being created/destroyed all over the place all the time. Perhaps its not the first time Terrell has seen an error on a previous star mapping survey

And maybe there is no ban on Khan's planet. After all - all charges had been dropped. Maybe Starfleet thought these superman are stuck on a planet they agreed to go on lets leave them in peace and maybe when they want to negotiate with the Federation once they'd created some communication device. Once the superman were humbled by having to do some back breaking work themselves to tame the planet and not having slave work forces they'd be humbled enough to be an asset to the Federation.

Of course they could have one it better.. I reckon it would have been better for Chekov to say he had not been aboard the Enterprise at the time and had heard stories of Khan. Thats why he didn't warn Terrell about them being in a solar system with life on one of the other planets. I'm pretty sure the criteria for the Genesis experiment should have been no life on any planets in the solar system just in case something went wrong and the Genesis planet broke up (which it did).

 

[Phaser Two]

I've followed the thread closely. The answer remains Space Seed, featuring about four ridiculous, mindblowingly inept decisions.

 

[Spock's Barber]

Kirk waits until the Companion is directly over Cochrane before he tells Spock to activate the electrical impulse disruptor. Zaaaaappppppp!!!!