"World Enough and Time"

[Lightinspire]

And "Blood and Fire" is turning out to be a notch above WEAT. Can't wait for Part II!

To me Blood and Fire went too far with the gay part of the episode. I'll never watch another episode, they have lost this fan.

For someone who's lost, you spend an awful lot of your time coming back to remind people that you've gone.

Yet still, no one actually cares.

Cawley should care about even one viewer leaving..if he doesn't then his head is so big beware, arrogance is always met with some humbling experience it cuts them down a notch or two back to reality that they are not what the world revolves around. Give it time, the arrogance of Cawley and company will come to an end one way or another, it always does.

 

[Lightinspire]

To me Blood and Fire went too far with the gay part of the episode. I'll never watch another episode, they have lost this fan.

LOL

Well, it's not like the folks from New Voyages/Phase II are losing money by losing viewers... so they probably don't care. I certainly wouldn't. Then again, there's probably nothing in "Blood and Fire" you wouldn't also see on "Torchwood".

As I've posted before, the number of viewers who "left" our series because of the content of "Blood and Fire, Part 1"--if indeed they ever really did "leave" (talk is cheap)--was far surpassed by the number of new viewers, fans, and supporters we garnered because of the episode's content. So when you net it all out, from a business standpoint as well as a creative standpoint, finally producing "Blood and Fire" after twenty years was one of the best decisions we have made.

Just new viewers who want to see the gay scene..once part II is released and the novelty is worn off your numbers will go down..you'll see..yes talk is cheap, I hope you looked in the mirror when saying that.

 

[Maurice]

Cawley should care about even one viewer leaving..if he doesn't then his head is so big beware, arrogance is always met with some humbling experience...

What's arrogant is your idea that anyone should tailor their productions to your interests, or to those who think like you.

Fact of the matter is, no one likes everything. There's nothing universally loved. And making things based on market research or on some idea that you're giving the people what they want generally results in bland pablum.

 

[Mallory]

Cawley should care about even one viewer leaving..if he doesn't then his head is so big beware, arrogance is always met with some humbling experience it cuts them down a notch or two back to reality that they are not what the world revolves around. Give it time, the arrogance of Cawley and company will come to an end one way or another, it always does.

That's pretty damned close to (if not) trolling Lightinspire. Either dial it back or find another place to preach your intolerance.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I'm reminded of a Smith's song, what was the title of that... something strikes again? It'll come to me. Gosh... what was it?

 

[GSchnitzer]

LOL

Well, it's not like the folks from New Voyages/Phase II are losing money by losing viewers... so they probably don't care. I certainly wouldn't. Then again, there's probably nothing in "Blood and Fire" you wouldn't also see on "Torchwood".

As I've posted before, the number of viewers who "left" our series because of the content of "Blood and Fire, Part 1"--if indeed they ever really did "leave" (talk is cheap)--was far surpassed by the number of new viewers, fans, and supporters we garnered because of the episode's content. So when you net it all out, from a business standpoint as well as a creative standpoint, finally producing "Blood and Fire" after twenty years was one of the best decisions we have made.

Just new viewers who want to see the gay scene..once part II is released and the novelty is worn off your numbers will go down..you'll see..yes talk is cheap, I hope you looked in the mirror when saying that.

Well, just to be clear: we're always disappointed when anyone leaves our viewership. We're pretty small so every set of eyes counts. But I think DS9Sega is right on the money: no decision pleases everyone. No matter what you do--sound, lighting, acting, props, costumes, directing, story--someone will say "No, it should have been done this way instead...." So, for example, we had some fans all the way back with our first episode "Come What May" who saw the potential of our little fan-based series and were looking forward to seeing more, but then they saw "In Harm's Way" and they thought "Oh dear! This is just crazy! This is just a derivative 'been there, done that' time travel story that's a sequel to like every Trek episode ever made and the only thing missing is the kitchen sink. I'm leaving and not watching this silly fan-based show ever again!" So, the things you like are not inherently the things everyone should like, and the things you dislike are not inherently the things everyone should dislike.

So, since we get feedback from all quarters about what we should be doing and what constitutes True Star Trek--all of that feedback being contradictory, of course--we search our own souls and make the best decisions we can. We try to stick as closely to Gene Roddenberry's formula and philosophy as best as we can deduce it to be forty years later, by using the tools we have at our disposal (such as his writings and personal information from people who knew him well and worked with him). We figure Gene's vision is largely what constitutes the enduring popularity of Star Trek after all this time so we try to do the stories we figure Gene would be doing. In the case of "Blood and Fire," it was a story he was explicitly interested in doing.

It's very possible that our numbers will go down after "Blood and Fire, Part 2" is released and the novelty wears off. I'm sure we have viewers with LGBT interests who came out of the woodwork because of the content of the episode. But having now introduced them to our little series, I'm not as convinced as you seem to be that every single one of them will go back into the woodwork once the hubbub is over. I'd like to think we would retain some of them as permanent viewers. (It's a little insulting to think that the only thing that draws LGBT viewers is LGBT issues. I would think that any quality production that speaks to the human condition would be of interest.) But I guess you might have an interesting point: if we, just for the sake of argument decide that our viewership numbers for "Blood and Fire" are a statistically skewed aberration, then one possible measure of the actual success of "Blood and Fire" to draw in and retain viewers will be to see if it has coattails. We can compare our viewership numbers of our pre-"Blood and Fire" episodes with our post-"Blood and Fire" episodes. So, for example we could compare "World Enough and Time" numbers with "Kitumba" numbers.

I really think that the trend on our post-"Blood and Fire" viewership numbers will surpass our pre-"Blood and Fire" viewership numbers--and of course that doesn't take into account the extraordinarily high viewership of "Blood and Fire" itself (which seems a little unfair to discount outright).

Do you really think that our post-"Blood and Fire" episodes will actually have lower viewership than pre-"Blood and Fire" episodes--perhaps as some kind of backlash in response to some of the content of "Blood and Fire?"

 

[USS Intrepid]

Cawley should care about even one viewer leaving..if he doesn't then his head is so big beware, arrogance is always met with some humbling experience it cuts them down a notch or two back to reality that they are not what the world revolves around. Give it time, the arrogance of Cawley and company will come to an end one way or another, it always does.

Oh I just meant no one cares about you. Or your arrogance in asserting that Phase II should ignore their creative desires and cater purely to you and your bigotry.

 

[Lightinspire]

Nor do I care if they care about me or not. Unlike some people, I'm not here to be liked or compromise things just to be liked. Creative desires? Give me a break..let's wait and see if the "new viewers because of BAF" stay..it is only a big hit because of the few scenes and curiousity..Cater to me and my bigotry? Just that statment asserts itself as being a bigot yourself against those who are not for such lifestyles..I just know what I know..just look in the mirror dude ...

 

[boobatuba]

Do you really think that our post-"Blood and Fire" episodes will actually have lower viewership than pre-"Blood and Fire" episodes--perhaps as some kind of backlash in response to some of the content of "Blood and Fire?"

Give me a break..let's wait and see if the "new viewers because of BAF" stay..it is only a big hit because of the few scenes and curiousity

I suppose that answers that question.

 

[Corran Horn]

I tell them to start with In Harm's Way. That is the best in my book.

And "Blood and Fire" is turning out to be a notch above WEAT. Can't wait for Part II!

To me Blood and Fire went too far with the gay part of the episode. I'll never watch another episode, they have lost this fan.

I remember how Spock was always like "IDIC, unless you're gay."

 

[number6]

Nor do I care if they care about me or not. Unlike some people, I'm not here to be liked or compromise things just to be liked. Creative desires? Give me a break..let's wait and see if the "new viewers because of BAF" stay..it is only a big hit because of the few scenes and curiousity..Cater to me and my bigotry? Just that statment asserts itself as being a bigot yourself against those who are not for such lifestyles..I just know what I know..just look in the mirror dude ...

I checked out this episode because it was written by David Gerrold, whose work and dedication to Star Trek I admire. I thought the scene in question was a little close to over the top, but the context gives it some weight.

If this episode breeds intolerence and provokes discussion among fans and dissenters alike, then Gerrold did his job. Star Trek's purpose was, has been and still is to be a forum where one can look at social issues. This episode may be provocative in a way that turns you off, but it has opened up the dialog and given us a forum to discuss this issue. I applaud the Phase II crew for their courage in tackling an issue televised Trek hasn't had the balls to do. Since it is a fan production, you can take it or leave it. They're not doing this for "ratings," and they're certainly not doing it to cater to your sensibilities. No one is forcing you to watch it or accept it as "True Trek."

 

[USS Intrepid]

Nor do I care if they care about me or not. Unlike some people, I'm not here to be liked or compromise things just to be liked. Creative desires? Give me a break..let's wait and see if the "new viewers because of BAF" stay..it is only a big hit because of the few scenes and curiousity..Cater to me and my bigotry? Just that statment asserts itself as being a bigot yourself against those who are not for such lifestyles..I just know what I know..just look in the mirror dude ...

Peddle your hate with someone else. People like you always whine and complain, and try to make out that they're the hard done by ones. As long as people like you feel free to peddle their ignorance and bigotry, then people like me will be around to call you on it.

I'd suggest you try looking in that mirror yourself, but it's abundantly clear you lack both the insight and the wisdom to see what's really staring back.

 

[Mallory]

I really think we should try and get back to the original topic before any of us (myself included) end up garnering an infraction. Since I believe most of us have the same opinion of Lightinspire's position on the issue and since anything we say is unlikely to change it, there's really no reason to continue down this path.

 

[Lightinspire]

I really think we should try and get back to the original topic before any of us (myself included) end up garnering an infraction. Since I believe most of us have the same opinion of Lightinspire's position on the issue and since anything we say is unlikely to change it, there's really no reason to continue down this path.

I agree,no one is going to change..it is a wonder though, those who call me a bigot cannot see they are actually a bigot themselves and cannot stand my position..so much for the people who preach tolerance who cannot practice it.

 

[Maurice]

I'm finding the "ignore" feature has made this topic a lot more tolerable now.

 

[USS Intrepid]

I'm finding the "ignore" feature has made this topic a lot more tolerable now.

I can certainly see advantages to that approach........

 

[CaptainKen]

Enough!

Sorry, World Enough and Time! It's a great episode. They're are plenty of threads out there for discussing the makeout scene of BAF.

I like how World Enough and Time filled in the Sulu character. And it bridged to the Sulu we saw commanding the Excelsior. That's cool. I like how Phase II is showing us that these 2nd string crew members are solid Starfleet officers with lots of potential. Sometimes in TOS, they just seemed like "extras".

 

[RobertMfromLI]

Nor do I care if they care about me or not. Unlike some people, I'm not here to be liked or compromise things just to be liked. Creative desires? Give me a break..let's wait and see if the "new viewers because of BAF" stay..it is only a big hit because of the few scenes and curiousity..Cater to me and my bigotry? Just that statment asserts itself as being a bigot yourself against those who are not for such lifestyles..I just know what I know..just look in the mirror dude ...

Ah, I understand now. Everyone else should compromise their beliefs on your behalf. Got it. Dont agree with it, but finally understand it.

And no, he is not a bigot - a bigot would be someone who is hateful in their (lack of) acceptance of people's differences, and/or their continued efforts to paint everyone who disagrees as the problem. I wont make any statements as to who I think qualifies for that.

Interesting note, the majority of our viewers seem to be straight. The majority of our crew is straight (producers included). The episode with the most views is BaF Part 1. Maybe the rest of the world is simply more openminded than some other people?

Another interesting note... as it is covered in the trailers, our posters and numerous articles online, I find it odd that someone seems to think they have the need, any time anything Star Trek Phase 2 is mentioned, to point out that there's a "gay scene" in BaF Part 1. Everyone knows. Virtually no one else cares (I know - I am the person who answers our emails). And, as is often the case with your posts, it has nothing to do with WEaT. Yet, oddly, any STP2 post, and you look for a way to chime in "yeah, that was great, but there's GAY in BaF, so I wont watch it anymore. Instead, I will continue posting about the GAY in BaF every chance I get for the last ***TWO*** years."

I wonder if you harrass the Torchwood gang as much? Funnily, people seem to watch that show.


Anyway, on to WEaT... it too was one of my favorite episodes. Sadly, one I only participated in for some of the final video transcoding efforts. I'd met George before in person, and wished I had the opportunity to actually work with him.

Rob

 

[RobertMfromLI]

I really think we should try and get back to the original topic before any of us (myself included) end up garnering an infraction. Since I believe most of us have the same opinion of Lightinspire's position on the issue and since anything we say is unlikely to change it, there's really no reason to continue down this path.

Hi Mallory,

Sorry, I just saw this... feel free to delete my previous post or let me know if I should edit it. Just a little tired of seeing his... posts... after years of... someone... creating account after account on our forums to post far more hateful versions of the same.

Sorry,
Rob

 

[Amaris]

I think "Blood and Fire" is positively brilliant. I remember first hearing about it and being excited to see another David Gerrold work be fleshed out on screen. I was not at all disappointed with part 1. It felt more natural than any of the previous outings (in my opinion). I can't wait for the rest of the story!


J.