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working my way through the series

Outpost4

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I bought the whole DS9 series from Deep Discount the middle of November. I've been slowly working through the the series. I just finished watching Vortex. While I don't want to do a episode by episode review, I would like to keep this thread as a journal of my passage.

First, a bit about me. My name is normally Outpost4 here and Gregg in the real world. I am 54 and an original Trekkie, being 13 in 1966, a prime age for getting sucked in by Star Trek. I have also always been open to new Trek. I really enjoyed the last two seasons of Enterprise. By now I'm tired of TNG - can you say over-exposed? - and most of Voyager loses me in technobabble. Also, Janeway sounds just like a Munchkin and I want her to follow the Yellow Brick Road home to Earth and be done with it.

As for DS9, I certainly watched some of it on first run. Emissary confused me and other episodes bored me, but I would watch an episode in DS9's first run from time to time. I have also seen an occasional episode on Spike. One of the reasons I bought the whole series was many of these episodes are new to me and this is the only new Trek I'm going to get for a while.

I was careful picking the title for this thread. So far it has been work to get through the first season of DS9. I know things don't get really interesting until season 3 but so far I have to say this is mostly bad Trek. Yes, there have been some highlights. Emissary was much better than I remember it. It does touch a lot of bases, to use an appropriate baseball analogy, doesn't it? I enjoyed Captive Pursuit, one of the few episodes so far I have seen before. I liked O'Brien's attachment to Tosk and his calling Sisko on his inaction at the end. I also enjoyed Move Along Home. It didn't telegraph its intentions and yet everything was wrapped up in a tight bow by its conclusion. One question: does Quark grovel so quickly and so poorly so often? I sure hope not. I also enjoyed the conflict in Kira's character shown in Past Prologue. I hope more is made of this. In every other episode so far, you could put a Starfleet uniform on her and not much would change.

Beyond that, this has been dreck Trek. I have heard Q-less is his only appearance in this series. Good. Both Dax and The Passenger had plot holes big enough to drive a space station through them. A Man Alone is totally out of place in the Trek world. Racism would be more subtle, not demonstrated by an angry mob at Odo's office. They should have had pitchforks and torches. The less said about The Nagus, the better. Characters flipped motivations faster than an Olympic gymnast. And Vortex? I should believe that "by-the-book" Odo is capable of letting a murderer go because of a family reunion? Pleaaassseeeee.

Some other observations. It must have been tough for the cast to learn their lines in Babel. I was especially impressed with Colm Meaney's ability to speak many consecutive sentences of gibberish. I hope they don't try to move DS9 too many more times. I don't care what kind of warp field they generate. Moving that big of a station using thrusters reminds me of a solution Voyager might come up with. The crew also solved taking over a Cardassian station rather easily, didn't they? Such a great plot device was abandoned too quickly. A partially functioning space station would have been much more interesting.

I don't mean to be negative but I have to admit in general I have been unimpressed with what I've watched so far. I will stay with it as I am a Trekkie but so far, not so good.
 
It's a weak start. Frankly, the first season is the weakest of the series. Stick around until "Duet" and "In the Hands of the Prophets", the last two episodes of the season. They're easily the best, not just of the season - I'd rate them among the series finest hours, and "Duet" as one of the all time best episodes period. Another strong episode would be "Progress."

Contrary to popular opinion, I believe quality actually picks up in S2, which still holds up as one of DS9's best seasons. S3 slips a little, and from S4 on the series is consistently good, for the most part.

Quark is braver than he appears, he grovels less later than he does now. And DS9 is pretty much through moving, I assure you.
 
Just a mod's note here, gang.

Since we are dealing with sort of a DS9 newbie here, let's try and be polite and keep spoilers for events which occur after the last episode Outpost4 viewed out of this thread.

I know he's seen some of the episodes...but as we all know, viewing the whole thing in order makes a HUGE difference.

Thanks for your co-operation. :)
 
To each his own. I actually like the first season quite a bit, although it is definitely the weakest of the series.

You've taken an unpopular opinion in liking "Move Along Home", although it's one I agree with. I also think "The Nagus" is a great episode, so I will warn you that if you don't like that one you may have difficulty with future Ferengi episodes.

Also:

DrunkenSanta said:
And Vortex? I should believe that "by-the-book" Odo is capable of letting a murderer go because of a family reunion? Pleaaassseeeee.

I think you'll see as the series progresses that Odo is not really "by-the-book". Odo is interested in justice (and order), which is not necessarily the same as following the letter of the law. I think his actions in "Vortex" are consistent with his character.

The popular view is that the series gets better around seasons 3 or 4 (depending on who you ask) but I actually think it's good from the start and just keeps getting better. I hope some of the later episodes will be more to your liking. Enjoy your viewing experience!
 
DrunkenSanta said:
Also, Janeway sounds just like a Munchkin and I want her to follow the Yellow Brick Road home to Earth and be done with it.
Rah! :guffaw:

I also enjoyed the conflict in Kira's character shown in Past Prologue. I hope more is made of this. In every other episode so far, you could put a Starfleet uniform on her and not much would change.
Kira has many more challenges ahead of her. Keep an eye out especially in the first season for the episodes "Progress," "Duet" and "In the Hands of the Prophets."

I hope they don't try to move DS9 too many more times. I don't care what kind of warp field they generate. Moving that big of a station using thrusters reminds me of a solution Voyager might come up with.
Fret thee not - it never happens again.

The crew also solved taking over a Cardassian station rather easily, didn't they? Such a great plot device was abandoned too quickly. A partially functioning space station would have been much more interesting.
The station still has some more teeth to reveal.

I don't mean to be negative but I have to admit in general I have been unimpressed with what I've watched so far. I will stay with it as I am a Trekkie but so far, not so good.
The thing about DS9 is that it's at its best when it's being DS9. In the first season, there were a large number of episodes which were basically TNG episodes set on a station instead of a ship. DS9 is much much stronger when it focuses on its own core issues and topics, and strives to maintain its own identity, not when it tries to be TNG. You will see the first hints of the brilliance that is to come with the last two episodes of the season.
 
DS9 Season 1 is pretty much no different than the TNG show in terms of quality or formula. Certainly DS9 Season 1 is by no means representative of the (way better) quality of the DS9 series later on, which DS9 has for most of it's seasons, but not Season 1.

I agree with you that Season 1 of DS9 is mostly "Dreck Trek", with 3 or 4 exceptions like Captive Pursuit. But as you've said, you know it gets way better by Season 3, so don't let the bad Season 1 stop you. :thumbsup:

I believe Season 1 is widely regarded as the worst Season of DS9, for very good reason. Threads like this that say Season 1 isn't too good, from new DS9 viewers, tend to come up a lot on this board. You are not wrong about Season 1 of DS9 being mostly bad, but the bright side is you are also not wrong about DS9 getting way better by Season 3. And then it stays excellent from then on, although amidst that excellence there are about 5 or 6 dud episodes every Season which are best skipped rather than viewed.
 
Much like yourself I wasn't too impressed when DS9 first aired but it slowly puts the hook into you... I remember occasionally yelling at the TV set up until the Circle arc. It's full of subtleties...much like your remarks on Quark and yes he's mostly a weasel but becomes a very endearing character.

Now that you're back to watching it in order you'll see many sub plots going on at the same time as the A story it'll be easier to follow and maybe more enjoyable.

Yeah some episodes are enough to gag a maggot ...we all know that and often discuss those lobs too. but all in all it's a compelling series with some of the most memorable characters ever created.
 
CindyLouWho said:
Just a mod's note here, gang.

Since we are dealing with sort of a DS9 newbie here, let's try and be polite and keep spoilers for events which occur after the last episode Outpost4 viewed out of this thread.

I know he's seen some of the episodes...but as we all know, viewing the whole thing in order makes a HUGE difference.

Thanks for your co-operation. :)

Absolutely!! Without spoiling anything, the rest of the series post season 1 makes me respect season 1 all the more. To know they went from how things were in season 1 to where they end up is great.
 
Thanks for the heads up, shatastrophic. You know I respect your opinion. Listen to this guy, folks. He is a true believer in Trek.

OK, I've finished the rest of season one. And while I appreciate and agree with the moderator's advice as to not give me spoilers, I do have one regret:

YOU SHOULD HAVE WARNED ME THERE WAS A LWAXANA TROI EPISODE !!!

Actually, it turned out sweetly for Odo and her but you know an episode is bad when it has A, B and C plots (Bashir & the ambassadors, the puppy dog probe and Lwaxana pining over Odo). To quote Gertrude Stein, there was no there there.

I did like how two classic Star Trek plot devices were recycled. A person's fantasies become reality (Shore Leave became If Wishes Were Horses) and two warring factions are miraculously healed to fight again (Day of the Dove became Battle Lines). Unfortunately, I thought the originals were better in both cases but then I'm a first generation Trekkie. What can I say?

I appreciated this dialog exchange between Dax and O'Brien in Battle Lines:

O'BRIEN: (murmuring to himself again) Bloody needle in a haystack... what we need is a magnet...
DAX: A magnet?
O'BRIEN: You want to pick a piece of metal out of the straw, you need a magnet...
DAX: I don't think I'm following you...
O'BRIEN: Runabout hulls are made out of metallic composites that interact with magnetic fields... We could send out a few probes to scan the system for those specific magnetic resonance patterns. If Sisko's Runabout is in the system, we might just pick up a fluctuation in the hysteresis curve...
DAX: The magnetic deflection of a Runabout hull's going to be extremely weak. The probes'll never be able to detect it.
O'BRIEN: They will if I can outfit them with a differential magnetomer...
DAX: A differential magnetomer?
O'BRIEN: (working) Uh huh.
DAX: I've never heard of a differential magnetomer, Chief. How does it work?
O'BRIEN: I'll let you know as soon as I've finished making one...

Beyond having enough real science in there to be scary, I love the wink at the absurdity of technobabble. Nice writing.

Of the eight episodes I watched, three were above average. I was glad to see that.

Progress was blessed by Brian Keith's wonderful acting. I read on TrekCore that the episode's writer, Peter Allan Fields, didn't like Keith's portrayal of Mullibok. He didn't want him played as a lovable curmudgeon. Fields is wrong. I will go with the actor's instincts here. Mullibok never gave in an inch. Having Mullibok have a soft side did not detract at all. In fact, it made the character accessible. And seeing Kira's transformations, from bureaucrat to sympathizer back to doing her job, highlighted her internal conflicts. An excellent episode all around.

In the Hands of the Prophets was probably the weakest of the three but I know how Lousie Fletcher's character becomes pivotal to the plot in years to come. This was a necessary episode. It was also a good Trek allegory, with the religious teaching in Keiko's school standing in for creationist teaching in our times.

I can't say enough nice things about Duet. It is as good as Trek gets. Marritza is a wonderful antagonist, full of complexity. Harris Yulin's portrayal should have won an Emmy. The real acting star, though, was Nana Visitor. Her Kira spanned the arc, from stinging hate to cradling her enemy with love as he died. Everything came together in this episode. I'd be shocked if when there are the "best of DS9" polls, Duet doesn't make it to the top twenty.

Onward to season two!

There isn't another Lwaxana episode, is there? Tell me now so I can get enough liquor in the house.
 
What can I say..the show is pretty bad season 1 they tried to be TNG on a space station, but hangin there, trust me the last episode of season 2 will make you go "omg" and by season 3 the show picks up, and by the end of season 7 you will think it was the best show ever.

Just hang in there and watch every episode

oh yeah..there is atleast one more lxwana -.-
 
^ Next you're going to be telling me she appears more than Garak. :D

Season one they are in the same number of episodes.


EDIT: I cheated. I went to Memory Alpha and scanned enough to see Lwaxana Troi comes back two more times. God, no.

Only one other question: bourbon or gin?
 
^ Don't worry - she doesn't appear much.

Hopefully you like Garak though...because he gets more screentime than Jake Sisko over the course of the series. ;)
 
Hell, I think Nog gets more screentime than Jake Sisko. (Actually, he has the record for most frequent recurring character, if one excludes background guys like Morn).

Nog becomes more likeable as he matures, though.:)
 
I've seen the developement of Nog over time. I also saw a few Garak episodes in the past. I am waiting for both of those with great anticipation.

I knew I didn't like Lwaxana Troi years ago.

Any comments on Duet or Progress?
 
Duet is probably one of the best eps... All I can say is wow... and I liked Season 1. I didn't see Season 1 of TNG until I was well into liking Trek. But DS9 has become my favorite of the Treks and Duet is one of those examples. In the Hands of the Prophets is a favorite of mine, too, because it shows how close-minded some people can be and how they can use the cloak of religion to mask their true intentions...
 
'Progress' is an underrated little gem of S1, a rather solid Kira episode about how hard it is to be the people against the underdog.

'Duet', as I said in the other thread, is one of the two best episodes in the series. :)

'In the Hands of the Prophets' is pretty good, too. Seen that yet?
 
Yes I have. I thought it was good but not great. It was a little preachy for my taste when it came to its message. I realise they needed to introduce Vedek Winn because of her future roll but it just didn't grab me.
 
I enjoyed it. It's certainly got a point, but it's one of DS9's most subtle and effective episodes when it comes to divides in Bajoran politics and the issue of religion.
 
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