Worf's son, and Worf, for that matter, on DS9
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My main problem with Worf and Alexander in DS9 is that...well, he basically abandoned his son and never bothered trying to see him in several years. Worf really came off as irresponsible in DS9, and that's not even mentioning how he never bothered trying to restore Kurn after getting his honor back.
Ouch! I forgot all about Bashir wiping Kurn's mind and surgically altering his appearance. Why would Bashir or Sisko ever approve of this? The way they champion Federation ethics, makes this decision very puzzling.
I would hope Worf found Kurn again. Kurn did have a few daughters I recall.
KRAD dealt with Kurn in his stand-alone novel "A Burning House". I won´t spoiler anything. Just read it
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I've found that I haven't tended to agree with Anwar very much on this BBS, but on this occasion I do 100%.
I have the same niggling problem with the whole Alexander/Worf thing, but perhaps going back even further, into his appearances on TNG even: in hindsight, it annoys me the flip-flopping that happened with the character. First he gets sent away to live with the Rozenkhos, then he comes back and lives on the Enterprise with his dad, then he gets sent back to Earth again after 1701-D bites the dust, then he joins up with the Klingons, then he disappears and is never seen again. I appreciate the fact that DS9 bothered to bring him back at all, it was a nice touch of continuity for the Worf character, but the comings and goings I find a bit much. I'd have rather they'd brought him along when Worf joined the station in the first place.Another "in retrospect" decision I wish hadn't happened is the death of the Duras sisters in Generations. They didn't know that Worf was going to join DS9 at that point, but in hindsight it would've been really interesting to have had them come back on that show, and to continue that whole feud arc, including maybe Alexander (after coming of age) flying off the handle and looking for his own vengeance for the death of his mother after all these years. Would've been a gold mine for rich storytelling possibilities, IMHO. Sadly, it was not to be.
I LOVED Worf on DS9. I do think he developed ALOT from his supporting role on TNG. But I can see how people would have preferred his TNG character.
Worf not communicating with Alexander after the destruction of the Ent D isn't that Surprising, after he took Alexander in when K'Elar died, he shipped Alexander off to Earth and his parents. It wasn't till his parents said they were getting old and Worf should care for his son did he come aboard the Enterprise D.
I have also come to accept the Rapid aging of Klingons. even if it doesn't shorten their overall lifetime. since the Flingongs seem to be more hunting based evolution. it would be like species that leave their young after a short development period. The children learn to tend for themselves and develop appropriately. With evolution into the honor based society, they moved a way from the separation of young, but that evolutionary ability remained.
As for him being the laughing stock, I was never happy with that, but it did give Worf reason to work on getting to know his son.
Alexander might not stay in the KDF, but War could have changed his pacifist views either by not rebelling against Worf anymore or just hearing of people dying in the numbers they did could have awoken that natural hunter spirit in Klingons.
Worf not communicating with Alexander after the destruction of the Ent D isn't that Surprising, after he took Alexander in when K'Elar died, he shipped Alexander off to Earth and his parents. It wasn't till his parents said they were getting old and Worf should care for his son did he come aboard the Enterprise D.
I have also come to accept the Rapid aging of Klingons. even if it doesn't shorten their overall lifetime. since the Flingongs seem to be more hunting based evolution. it would be like species that leave their young after a short development period. The children learn to tend for themselves and develop appropriately. With evolution into the honor based society, they moved a way from the separation of young, but that evolutionary ability remained.
As for him being the laughing stock, I was never happy with that, but it did give Worf reason to work on getting to know his son.
Alexander might not stay in the KDF, but War could have changed his pacifist views either by not rebelling against Worf anymore or just hearing of people dying in the numbers they did could have awoken that natural hunter spirit in Klingons.
I always looked at it this way. Alexander was a child when he got shipped back to earth and children are more accepting/tolerant of differences in their friends/playmates especially in a utopian society like the federation. It's when they get older that they become more self aware and things like culture/race/gender/etcetera begin to affect how they interact with one another.
It's not that hard to imagine that as Alexander grew older he became more and more aware of the differences between him and the humans surrounding him especially with his more rapid ageing. Also he is quite far from the usual loud aggressive klingon stereotype but would be surrounded by humans who expect him to behave that way because to their eyes he is klingon.
All this along with usual teenage identity crisis could lead into him feeling out of place and deciding to try to explore his klingon heritage more. Plenty of people in real life as they grow older gain discover a greater appreciation and interest for their culture than they had previously had when younger. Except there aren't really any other Klingons hanging around earth and he doesn't have the contacts/support system needed to move to Kronos and then the war breaks out and the Klingons are recruiting so problem solved.
That's just how I explain it to myself when watching DS9
It's not that hard to imagine that as Alexander grew older he became more and more aware of the differences between him and the humans surrounding him especially with his more rapid ageing. Also he is quite far from the usual loud aggressive klingon stereotype but would be surrounded by humans who expect him to behave that way because to their eyes he is klingon.
All this along with usual teenage identity crisis could lead into him feeling out of place and deciding to try to explore his klingon heritage more. Plenty of people in real life as they grow older gain discover a greater appreciation and interest for their culture than they had previously had when younger. Except there aren't really any other Klingons hanging around earth and he doesn't have the contacts/support system needed to move to Kronos and then the war breaks out and the Klingons are recruiting so problem solved.
That's just how I explain it to myself when watching DS9
I saw DS9 before TNG so that has certainly colored my perception a bit. I loved Worf in DS9 and even in TNG, but I did prefer him in DS9. I was extremely surprised when Alexander made an appearance in DS9 because I had no idea Worf even had a son. I assumed he had never been in his life or that Alexander had been adopted or something until I saw TNG. Then, I was pissed at Worf for never really staying in touch or raising his son. I dunno, it just irked me but obviously I have a very human viewpoint of the whole affair.
I consider TNG pretty mediocre. When DS9 began, I considered it TNG-level mediocre. But a number of things happened over the course of the show to rocket DS9 into a damn good show. One of those things was the arrival of Worf. I like Worf on DS9 more than TNG like I like DS9 more than TNG. But I always liked the Klingon-related stories the most on TNG, so I considered Worf's stories among the best on TNG.
Interesting perspectives on Worf. I prefer the TNG Worf more. I thought it provided more of an interesting contrast in personality with the rest of the TNG crew. I hadn't really thought about him being played for laughs so much, as many people have pointed out, but I do think he added a welcome and different perspective among the TNG cast. I don't think he stood out as much to me in DS9 and I have to wonder if some of his thunder wasn't stolen by Martok.
As for Alexander I guess I preferred the TNG Alexander. I liked the TNG Klingon episodes more than the DS9 Klingon episodes, with some exceptions.
As for Alexander I guess I preferred the TNG Alexander. I liked the TNG Klingon episodes more than the DS9 Klingon episodes, with some exceptions.
Worf was much better integrated on DS9, to the point of probably being used better as a character. He certainly got more in the way of general character development. But he was probably more distinct on TNG, because he stood out a lot more as being this different guy to all those other stuffed shirt types on the Enterprise (even though his actual 'development' was much more one-note).
I'd favor his DS9 appearances more, but in my heart of hearts it's more like a tie.
I'd favor his DS9 appearances more, but in my heart of hearts it's more like a tie.
Worf should've been a recurring character on DS9, instead of part of the regular cast. O'Brien was enough of a connective thread, between TNG and this show. Also, I like how different DS9's format was in it's first couple of seasons. Once Worf (and hence, all of the Klingon-centric story arcs) and the Defiant became a part of the act, it seemed as though "they" were trying to play it safe and put back more and more TNG into it the mix to make it more like that show. Typically, I would be fine with this, except that it does seem grafted on, when the initial idea of it was to get away from TNG's format and do something different. Also, the TNG movies always having to borrow Worf again seemed kind of awkward. I like Michael Dorn alot, but did he ever get any work besides starring as Worf after TNG?
What development did Worf really get on DS9? He had his marriage to Dax but other than that his personality was pretty static right up until Tacking Into The Wind. He didn't grow much like he did in the first four seasons of TNG. In most episodes he played a big factor he came off as an intolerant screaming manchild.
^1. He dealt with loss and mourning in a unique, extended manner.
2. He was better able to integrate his personality and his identity as a Klingon.
3. He learned to respond to people in his environment autonomously, without the filtering of Picard.
2. He was better able to integrate his personality and his identity as a Klingon.
3. He learned to respond to people in his environment autonomously, without the filtering of Picard.
Worf was also able to advance his career along the command path having both opportunity and encouragement to become a leader and decision maker in his own right whilst also learning about the great responsibility that comes with power.
On tng he didn't really have anywhere to advance to career wise and whilst his opinion was often sought it was usually disregarded. IMHO he was rarely a leader or decision maker on tng except in personal matters.
On tng he didn't really have anywhere to advance to career wise and whilst his opinion was often sought it was usually disregarded. IMHO he was rarely a leader or decision maker on tng except in personal matters.
Dorn has done a *lot* of voice-over work.
If I recall correctly, Dorn himself had great conflict in his mind when he was offered the DS9 role, specifically about what it meant for returning in the TNG movies. At one stage he spoke in the Star Trek Magazine about not how he probably wouldn't be in the movies because of the hectic schedule of filming the TV show, but the producers somehow worked out a way to accomodate him for both. Which, as you infer, is somewhat of a shame, as his presence felt shoehorned into the last couple movies anyway ( and it might've been a lot of fun if "Insurrection" had've for example given us a TNG movie without Worf, just to see what it would be like
).
I love STAR TREK: The Next Generation ... heart & soul! And Worf is a big part of TNG's identity, of course. So not having him in any of the TNG movies would stand out too much, even with his blessing. Worf was alright, but I hated what Klingons became, with him holding the banner during TNG's watch. They just became so stupid with their sniffing eachother like dogs and howling at stupid shit, like when somebody dies. Then there was the moronic way they spoke, with lines like, "... I tasted your heart! But your words were but dust on the ground!" ... WHAT?! How did this mentally challenged horseshit ever make it past the discussion phase?
And more than any of this, Michael Westmore's continually trying to up himself with the over-the-top rubber heads! He got to the point where he based it off of backbones, apparently, then he split the "spine" in two, so that it's a groove, down the middle of the forehead, now! Michael ... I know your ego hates having to copy other people's works, but ... your ideas sucked! Anyway, back to Dorn ... I'm glad he's kept himself busy over these many, many decades since TNG came out. He deserved better success for himself, though, than voicing commercials and videogames. Who else had to go that route? Mark Hamill from STAR WARS fame was voicing cartoons (!!!). Probably not what they signed up with Hollywood for, but ... oh, well.
And more than any of this, Michael Westmore's continually trying to up himself with the over-the-top rubber heads! He got to the point where he based it off of backbones, apparently, then he split the "spine" in two, so that it's a groove, down the middle of the forehead, now! Michael ... I know your ego hates having to copy other people's works, but ... your ideas sucked! Anyway, back to Dorn ... I'm glad he's kept himself busy over these many, many decades since TNG came out. He deserved better success for himself, though, than voicing commercials and videogames. Who else had to go that route? Mark Hamill from STAR WARS fame was voicing cartoons (!!!). Probably not what they signed up with Hollywood for, but ... oh, well.
I really prefer Worf in DS9 to TNG. As others have mentioned, he was something of a repetitive joke character in TNG. His opinion was always asked for, but always disregarded. He was the "let's hear the wrong answer so we can talk about the right answer" character. It was such a shame. In DS9 at least he developed some and didn't have to deal with the heavy-hand of Picard looking over his shoulder at every turn. But I think that was a format issue (shipboard vs station) more than anything.
One aspect of Worf I liked far better on TNG was his relationship to Alexander. At least there he seemed to make an effort and tried to be a father, even if a bad one. The way he's portrayed in DS9 in relation to Alexander is atrocious. He's aloof and embarrassed and cringing about the kid. Well, Worf, what did you expect abandoning him like that. For a character who regarded Klingon tradition, family, and honor in such high regard, he sure did botch the chance to instill Klingon tradition, a sense of family, and honor in his own kid. Yikes.
One aspect of Worf I liked far better on TNG was his relationship to Alexander. At least there he seemed to make an effort and tried to be a father, even if a bad one. The way he's portrayed in DS9 in relation to Alexander is atrocious. He's aloof and embarrassed and cringing about the kid. Well, Worf, what did you expect abandoning him like that. For a character who regarded Klingon tradition, family, and honor in such high regard, he sure did botch the chance to instill Klingon tradition, a sense of family, and honor in his own kid. Yikes.
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