Worf on DS9.... A good decision, or a mistake?

[chancellorjake]

I think that Worf was a great addition to DS9. The character was fleshed out much better than he was on TNG. There were many times on TNG when came across as a buffoon. The Klingons received better development, because of his addition to the cast, as well.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I still feel they missed a great opportunity to establish a Sisko-Worf friendship. It could've countered the Picard-Worf one, in being different, more manly than the other.

But thats just me.

 

[Galactic Alignment]

I didn't mind Worf coming over to DS9, and still don't really. Thing is, it led to too many Klingon-centred episodes, particularly in season 4. (Paramount being cheap by having an easy excuse to reuse their Klingon sets and costumes more often?) Not that every Klingon-centric DS9 episode was dull or bad, just there was too many of 'em, particularly so soon after TNG.

 

[NKemp3]

I still think most of the great Worf episodes came from TNG as well as most of the great Klingon episodes. But the payoff of having Worf came for me with "Tacking Into the Wind."

 

[Kegek]

One of the best things to happen to DS9, and for that matter Worf. My only real criticism is that Worf's character arc was essentially a reset of his TNG arc (in TNG, he goes from shamed outsider to influential figure in the empire, and on DS9 he goes from shamed outsdier to influential figure in the empire); but he really worked well with the cast. Been rewatching the show and just hit S4; and the presence of Worf really works wonders for the show. He's the working stiff to beat all other working stiffs; my favourite dour Klingon added a lot of texture to DS9 and got a lot back in return - he's a gruffer customer than his TNG counterpart. Very sensitive to his environment, I suppose.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

I though Worf was a great addition to DS9. His conflict between his two worlds fits in with one of DS9's most prevelent themes. Plus, we never would have had Martok if Worf hadn't come to DS9.

 

[Stag]

I think the addition of Worf transformed his character AND helped DS9. I agree that DS9 did not need Worf to survive, but he brought a different dynamic to the show and his character over the years became a far richer one.

I love Martok, but I think one of the reasons his character is so beloved by DS9 fans is the interplay and dialog between Worf and Martok. I think if it was simply Sisko and Martok, Martok would have wound up a different type of character. Similar but different.

Now the last reason I am glad Worf joined DS9 - we got to see Kor, Kang and Koloth once again.

 

[NKemp3]

I though Worf was a great addition to DS9. His conflict between his two worlds fits in with one of DS9's most prevelent themes. Plus, we never would have had Martok if Worf hadn't come to DS9.

You could have easily included Martok without including Worf. Both were introduced to DS9 in the same episode and if TPTB didn't go the Worf route, they could have used Martok as a Klingon ally during the conflict. Look, I'm not complaining about Worf being added, but I'm saying it wasn't necessary.

 

[NKemp3]

I think the addition of Worf transformed his character AND helped DS9. I agree that DS9 did not need Worf to survive, but he brought a different dynamic to the show and his character over the years became a far richer one.

I love Martok, but I think one of the reasons his character is so beloved by DS9 fans is the interplay and dialog between Worf and Martok. I think if it was simply Sisko and Martok, Martok would have wound up a different type of character. Similar but different.

I'd take that bet. I would love a vote by DS9 fans to see whether they loved the Martork-Worf moments over the Martok-Sisko interaction. I'm definitely a bigger fan of the latter. Then again I'm also more of a fan of the Sisko-Dax relationship (platonic as it was) than the Worf-Dax relationship too.

 

[scorpius1701]

The question is really, did Worf being there add anything? Id say that it did because it marked a change from DS9 making the final transition from a decrepit old pile of junk to being an operational, functional station. Defintiely something that needed to be addressed given the larger issues taking place on the show. The problem though is now DS9 can just fight its way out of anything and some of the tension from the earlier seasons, that DS9 CANT hold its own in a fight was gone. Meh. Either you like the change or you dont.
His addition also marked a time when the Federation might be actively looking for allies in the Dominion fight which is surely coming so it opened up the universe a little. The PROBLEM here is that they decided to use the Klingons which had been done to death on TNG. Personally, Klingons after TNG season 5 just irritate me. Honor this, honor that. I could talk my way out of a fight with a klingon if i really had to. The definition of honor changes with every episode. FIrst you kill yourself if you get captured, then you dont kill yourself if theres still enemies left to fight or hope of escape. WHAT??? Theres always going to be guards around to fight! And if i had to listen to one more Klingon soldier trash talking someone he didnt like by saying that they were without honor i was going to just do something. They became a bunch of one note guys and ignored the interesting ways their culture was portrayed in "Sins of the Father" "Reunion" and "Redemption".
This brings us to Worf's characterization. Im conflicted on this because he did have some very good episodes but there were some where he was just kinda annoying. I dont know where the writers got the idea that Worf had no sense of humor. This was the guy who when Q asked what he had to do to prove that he was human, replied, "Die!" Go watch TNG again, Worf is standing back there making snarky comments quite a lot. I disagree that he got no characterization on TNG, see the above episodes. But i cant deny the quality of episodes like "The Sons Of Mogh" or "Way of the Warrior."
Unfortunately the addition of Worf would also have the effect of having Dax turn into a Klingon too. I wasnt crazy about the beginning of their relationship though ironically i did enjoy the episdoes where they were married. They were actually believeable as a coupke that were slightly boring but happily in love.
Instead of having Worf on the show, I would have had them bring in somebody from a different species that maybe hasnt been showcased as much. Hell, why not the Romulans? We saw the beginnings of their alliance in Season 3. Add a Romulan character and now you have Kira being a relevent character again. (Even her fans like myself cant deny she dropped out of importance with Worf's arrival) With a character that others might not trust on the station i think youd have more of an interesting character dynamic like Kira who would HATE the idea of a Romulan on DS9. it still adds the feel that other forces in the galaxy are taking an interest in the Bajoran sector, escalating the intensity of the series. In conclusion, I know why they added Worf, it was a great idea, as long as they added somebody other than Worf.


Wow. I wrote a lot.

 

[Stag]

I think Garak filled the role of person not entirely trusted on the station. A permanent Romulan character would have indeed been interesting.

 

[scorpius1701]

I think Garak filled the role of person not entirely trusted on the station. A permanent Romulan character would have indeed been interesting.

I would have agreed with you if not for the fact that by Worf's appearance, Garak was pretty much trusted by the crew to the point where he had a bridge position on the Defiant and was entrusted with decoding Cardassian transmissions. I think they neutered him a little bit with that. The addition of another character who the crew might not trust might have put a bit of spice back into him.

 

[exodus]

I think that Worf was a great addition to DS9. The character was fleshed out much better than he was on TNG. There were many times on TNG when came across as a buffoon. The Klingons received better development, because of his addition to the cast, as well.

I completely agree.

On TNG, Worf was very one note mindless guy that wanted to fight and just said one liners. On DS9, we got to see more of the man behind the warrior. We saw his nobility, his passion & compassion. We saw him as not just a fighter but as a lover as well. Someone who had more responsabilities now than just his position.

DS9 thru Worf & Martok, showed there isn't much difference between humans & Klingons.

 

[RobertScorpio]

It was a great choice, but for reasons no one has really touched on. I have read that Brooks, once he found out Worf was coming, went to Behr and said, to the effect, "this guy (worf) is going to make Sisko look more timid. Unleash me, let me grow my goatee, so I can hold my own with the alpha-male worf)..words to that effect.

Dorn's coming is what inspired Brooks to ask that Sisko be beefed up, and become more of the Sisko we came to know, rather than making him be the black-Picard as they were wanting him to be...

By the way? I think Dorn is moron who has nothing good to say about DS9, and has, at time, taken stupid ass pot shots at Avery Brooks. So while I am glad WORF came, I think Dorn is a bozo.

Rob

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I think the addition of Worf transformed his character AND helped DS9. I agree that DS9 did not need Worf to survive, but he brought a different dynamic to the show and his character over the years became a far richer one.

I love Martok, but I think one of the reasons his character is so beloved by DS9 fans is the interplay and dialog between Worf and Martok. I think if it was simply Sisko and Martok, Martok would have wound up a different type of character. Similar but different.

I'd take that bet. I would love a vote by DS9 fans to see whether they loved the Martork-Worf moments over the Martok-Sisko interaction. I'm definitely a bigger fan of the latter. Then again I'm also more of a fan of the Sisko-Dax relationship (platonic as it was) than the Worf-Dax relationship too.

I'd be curious about this too. I'd love to see someone start a poll thread on it.

Me? Give me Martok any day of the week over Worf.

Martok was the much more interesting character precisely because he was ALL Klingon, had not been raised on a Federation planet, and was not in Starfleet at all, let alone being under Sisko's direct command.

Sisko had to co-operate and work with Martok to win the war despite the fact that they were very different people from very different cultures...and neither had the right to command the other.

I thought the Sisko-Martok alliance was one of the most interesting aspects of the Dominion War, actually. I wish they'd had more time to deal with the topic...but even with the time they had, it was very interesting to watch.

One of my favorite scenes from WYLB is the one where they finally have that opportunity to drink that blood wine standing on Cardassia Prime...and Sisko and Ross pour theirs out on the ground rather than drink to the utter destruction of Cardassia that is lying all around them.

Martok doesn't get it at all...but you could see him just shrug it off and think to himself "Those crazy humans!" and then he drinks alone.

A piece of utter brilliance!

 

[exodus]

I think the addition of Worf transformed his character AND helped DS9. I agree that DS9 did not need Worf to survive, but he brought a different dynamic to the show and his character over the years became a far richer one.

I love Martok, but I think one of the reasons his character is so beloved by DS9 fans is the interplay and dialog between Worf and Martok. I think if it was simply Sisko and Martok, Martok would have wound up a different type of character. Similar but different.

I'd take that bet. I would love a vote by DS9 fans to see whether they loved the Martork-Worf moments over the Martok-Sisko interaction. I'm definitely a bigger fan of the latter. Then again I'm also more of a fan of the Sisko-Dax relationship (platonic as it was) than the Worf-Dax relationship too.

I'd be curious about this too. I'd love to see someone start a poll thread on it.

Me? Give me Martok any day of the week over Worf.

Martok was the much more interesting character precisely because he was ALL Klingon, had not been raised on a Federation planet, and was not in Starfleet at all, let alone being under Sisko's direct command.

Sisko had to co-operate and work with Martok to win the war despite the fact that they were very different people from very different cultures...and neither had the right to command the other.

I thought the Sisko-Martok alliance was one of the most interesting aspects of the Dominion War, actually. I wish they'd had more time to deal with the topic...but even with the time they had, it was very interesting to watch.

One of my favorite scenes from WYLB is the one where they finally have that opportunity to drink that blood wine standing on Cardassia Prime...and Sisko and Ross pour theirs out on the ground rather than drink to the utter destruction of Cardassia that is lying all around them.

Martok doesn't get it at all...but you could see him just shrug it off and think to himself "Those crazy humans!" and then he drinks alone.

A piece of utter brilliance!

I personally didn't see much dynamic in exploring the relationship between Sisko/Martok. They both seemed to be of equal mind set.

While I understand why Sisko wouldn't drink over bodies & Martok would, Sisko however did poison a populated planet to capture just one man & became a willing accessory to murder to get the Romulans involved. Both acts were a very "Klingon" way of thinking.

 

[NKemp3]

To me every time Sisko and Martok there was a jolt of electricity to it. None of their moments, no matter how small, came across as boring or uninteresting. The two men shared such an easy rapport and were engaging in their interactions. The word for that is chemistry. No matter how well you write the dialogue and the scenes in the end it’s the interaction between the actors themselves that most determines how successful the scenes play out to the viewers. Avery and JG had great chemistry. It was like watching two, old friends. It didn't matter whether they were discussing comical personal matters such as Martok's wife or more sober incidents such as the Breen attack on Earth. The engaging nature between the two of them was always there on the screen to be seen which made sure none of their interactions would ever be boring.

This is not to say there wasn't anything to recommend concerning the Martok-Worf relationship or the Sisko-Worf relationship. But the relationship between Martok and Worf were dimmed by the fact that too many of their conversations revolved around the stale and tired ramblings concerning Klingon honor and tradition. And Sisko and Worf’s interaction, while well-handled, never lived up to the promises of TPTB. Rather we got mostly a Picard-Worf retread without any of that relationship's depth. In fact the Picard father figure-like interaction with Worf was so ingrained, that Worf’s moments with these two other men of authority paled in comparison.


I believe the dynamic between Sisko and Martok was strong but unfortunately not taken advantage of as much as it could have been. I thought Martok's presence also served the show well because it gave Sisko an ally who was a semi-regular who did not serve under him. They were two equals. And while they had many differences you could sense the enormous respect each had for the other. And they had travelled a greater distance to gain that respect. Consider that Worf at least had in common with Picard and Sisko that he was a Starfleet officer. And he of course was a Klingon which gave him a natural bonding point with Martok. But Martok and Sisko did not share any such common traits as those. Yet they were both fathers and leaders who understood the burdens of command. And when on screen they came across as old friends with decades of history behind them even though in their timeline it had only been a few years.

Also there is no Worf-Martok or Sisko-Worf moment that can match when Martok closely observed Sisko's baseball while an anxious and territorial Sisko looked on before being compelled to grab the ball from Martok’s hand. No matter how well such a scene is written on the page, it takes magic between actors to really sell it.

Nothing in common unlike other relationships. And yet the two men still had tremendous respect for each other.