Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

[Anwar]

Yes, I think we all get that you liked how Thor Ragnarok handled a similar situation. But the point remains, she only was able to beat Ares once she turned to her inner power (and you're free to see this as a deus ex machina), but the fact remains, up until that point, she was in real danger.

Fine, I see it as a Deus Ex Machina because they were too incompetent to think of any other way out.

If you just wanted "real danger", a formidable nemesis suffices, it would seem. But no, you keep bringing up Wonder Woman being shot or generally hurt by soldiers.

Because we didn't get a formidable nemesis. A formidable nemesis would be someone she couldn't beat even with her deux es machina powers.

By the way, Superman is never in any real danger when soldiers shoot at him, because he's bulletproof.!

He's is danger from other Kryptonians, from Kryptonite weapons and from Doomsday.

 

[LJones41]

Cap never declared that British snipers who target German soldiers "fight without honor." That's what bothers me about WW; it's the hypocrisy.

Also, in the climax of WW, she says, "I believe in love"... then promptly kills her sworn enemy (and brother) just as she had set out to do in the beginning. For all the talk of her being a different kind of superhero, she ultimately disposes of her problems in the traditional manner of testosterone factories like John McClane and Dirty Harry.

Compare that to the climax of The Winter Soldier:

Steve: I won't fight you. You're my friend.
Bucky: You're my mission!
Steve: Then finish it. 'Cause I'm with you 'til the end of the line.​

Steve loves Bucky so much that he would rather let a brainwashed Bucky kill him than be forced to kill Bucky to save himself. Bucky, for his part, is sufficiently moved (or confused) by this that he ultimately spares Steve.

That is a story of love winning out in the end. Cap is the kind of superhero that WW is purported to be.

And I wondered when the backlash was going to commence. Six to seven months . . . not bad.

She may have talked Germans/Austrians/Nazis out of WW2 and The Holocaust to begin with. Needless to say, as a young American who only became super-strong after Pearl Harbor, Steve had no such opportunity.

Is this more DC Comics v. Marvel bullshit? Oh my God.

 

[Captrek]

And I wondered when the backlash was going to commence. Six to seven months . . . not bad.

Are you going to respond to my points, or just belittle me as "backlash"?

BTW, that second quote isn't mine. It's @Gaith.

 

[ichab]

And I wondered when the backlash was going to commence. Six to seven months . . . not bad.

It never ends with Marvel fanatics. Plus the example he used is one of the biggest reasons I stopped watching Marvel. It's pie in the sky B.S. Even Spock wasn't that naive.

Is this more DC Comics v. Marvel bullshit? Oh my God.

They really are a petty bunch of people.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

That's a hell of an accusation...

Well, he brings this up so often, it just seems like he doesn't want the greatest female superhero ever coming out of a fight with some common soldiers without a scratch. Tell me you don't see how often he brings them up.

Fine, I see it as a Deus Ex Machina because they were too incompetent to think of any other way out.

See?! That wasn't so hard. Because that's your actual criticism, which actually has some merit. So please stop with that "real danger" bullshit.

Because we didn't get a formidable nemesis. A formidable nemesis would be someone she couldn't beat even with her deux es machina powers.

Or, the other way to look at it, Ares was such a formidable nemesis, they couldn't figure out another way to beat him except a deus ex machina.

He's is danger from other Kryptonians, from Kryptonite weapons and from Doomsday.

And Wonder Woman is in real danger from Ares. And bullets. Because, you know, they don't bounce off of her, and she needs tools and skills to protect herself from them.

 

[Scout101]

Oh no, Bullets! My only weakness!

 

[Reverend]

Would now be a good time to point out the hilarity of complaining about Deus Ex Machina in a film featuring literal gods and demigods?

 

[Anwar]

Well, he brings this up so often, it just seems like he doesn't want the greatest female superhero ever coming out of a fight with some common soldiers without a scratch. Tell me you don't see how often he brings them up.

I want more from a superhero movie than someone utterly invincible to the point it's impossible to care about them.

See?! That wasn't so hard. Because that's your actual criticism, which actually has some merit. So please stop with that "real danger" bullshit.

It's the same thing, they were too incompetent to think of a way for her to get out of the final battle with Ares so they made her damn near omnipotent because they didn't like the idea of her having to think a way out or actually struggle.

Or, the other way to look at it, Ares was such a formidable nemesis, they couldn't figure out another way to beat him except a deus ex machina.

Laziness, utter laziness.

And Wonder Woman is in real danger from Ares. And bullets. Because, you know, they don't bounce off of her, and she needs tools and skills to protect herself from them.

Then show her actually getting injured by the bullets, the way we saw Superman actually getting HURT by Kryptonite.

 

[crookeddy]

I
Then show her actually getting injured by the bullets, the way we saw Superman actually getting HURT by Kryptonite.

You keep posting this over and over and over, and apparently you didn't even watch the movie since, early on she gets hit by a deflected bullet and it causes her to bleed...

https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/75700/what-if-a-bullet-hit-wonder-woman

Hey look! Blood! From a bullet!

 

[Anwar]

You keep posting this over and over and over, and apparently you didn't even watch the movie since, early on she gets hit by a deflected bullet and it causes her to bleed...

Then keep showing us stuff like that instead of having her just trounce over everyone in her path, and develop random Deus ex Machina powers instead of putting any real effort in the final battle.

 

[crookeddy]

Then keep showing us stuff like that instead of having her just trounce over everyone in her path, and develop random Deus ex Machina powers instead of putting any real effort in the final battle.

You wanted her to keep getting shot? WTF kind of movie would that be?

 

[The Realist]

I would suggest that Diana's philosophical and emotional vulnerabilities are far more important, and compelling, than her physical ones. That's where the heart of the story lies, so all this obsessing about bullets and whatnot rather misses the point.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Then keep showing us stuff like that instead of having her just trounce over everyone in her path, and develop random Deus ex Machina powers instead of putting any real effort in the final battle.

You know, I was in the process of answering to your previous post, when this newer one popped up. And if anybody still has doubts about you shifting goal posts, there's nothing I or anybody else can say to change their minds. You've been disproven again and again.
If you had come out and admitted to not have remembered that part @crookeddy presented, I wouldn't have blamed you. I forgot about it myself, or else I would have brought it up myself way earlier. But no, you can't admit you were wrong, so you have to shift the goal post yet again.

Therefore, this will be my last response to you, as arguing with you is definitely not worth the effort, and I urge all others to do the same.

 

[Set Harth]

A formidable nemesis would be someone she couldn't beat even with her deux es machina powers.

But then he would have beaten her... not exactly a great ending...

 

[Turtletrekker]

You know, I was in the process of answering to your previous post, when this newer one popped up. And if anybody still has doubts about you shifting goal posts, there's nothing I or anybody else can say to change their minds. You've been disproven again and again.
If you had come out and admitted to not have remembered that part @crookeddy presented, I wouldn't have blamed you. I forgot about it myself, or else I would have brought it up myself way earlier. But no, you can't admit you were wrong, so you have to shift the goal post yet again.

Therefore, this will be my last response to you, as arguing with you is definitely not worth the effort, and I urge all others to do the same.

Also note, that when you make a reply in which a point of his is refuted, he will latch onto the one portion of your post that he can make an argument about rather than address the refuted point.

 

[Captrek]

You know, WW and Ares might have been a good opportunity to really make WW a different kind of superhero and tell a story of love winning out.

Like Return of the Jedi. The Emperor thought he could turn Luke, but was stymied by Luke's essential goodness. He could sense all the hate and anger in the people around him, but was caught completely off guard by the love Anakin felt for his son. He was such a master of evil and hate that only goodness and love could defeat him.

What if the God of War can't be defeated by an act of war, the combined forces of the other Olympian gods lost when they tried to beat him at his own game, but an act of love is somehow able to find his Achilles' heel? And all that stuff about love isn't just talk, it really makes the difference?

 

[Anwar]

But then he would have beaten her... not exactly a great ending...

Not if she found a way of beating him without needing random Deus Ex Machina powers. Or if Ares wasn't similarly nebulously powered and had been given defined strength and limitations she could exploit.

IE, more intelligent writing.

You wanted her to keep getting shot? WTF kind of movie would that be?

The same kind of movie where Batman survives despite getting hit several times, or Superman survives battling other Kryptonians, etc.

Someone who needs to earn their victory through more than just raw power randomly given to them via plot contrivance. Like how Marvel handles things with their heroes.

 

[crookeddy]

Someone who needs to earn their victory through more than just raw power randomly given to them via plot contrivance. Like how Marvel handles things with their heroes.

Man you've gotta be working for Disney or something to be spouting such bullshit with such regularity.

So we're talking about the constant danger the GOD OF THUNDER is in all the time, right?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Someone who needs to earn their victory through more than just raw power randomly given to them via plot contrivance.

Plot contrivance like a yellow sun?

 

[Gaith]

Man you've gotta be working for Disney or something to be spouting such bullshit with such regularity.

It's a perfectly valid point, but the time has indeed come to call it a point made, and to move on.