With no Space Seed, how can there be a "Khan Movie"?

[M'Sharak]

What I don't get is why the hell people WANT Khan in another movie. I'd much rather see something NEW, not a rehash. I also am not fond of getting re-"imagined" TOS episodes in the comic, instead of all-new material.

Well, I think we have to acknowledge that there are more than a few Trek fans out there who really do want to see previously-told stories and known characters revisited. If that's to be done, I'd much rather it be happening in the comics, while at the same time the movies are showing us strange new worlds and new characters and going where we haven't already been before.

 

[Trekkie2]

What I don't get is why the hell people WANT Khan in another movie. I'd much rather see something NEW, not a rehash. I also am not fond of getting re-"imagined" TOS episodes in the comic, instead of all-new material.

Well, I think we have to acknowledge that there are more than a few Trek fans out there who really do want to see previously-told stories and known characters revisited. If that's to be done, I'd much rather it be happening in the comics, while at the same time the movies are showing us strange new worlds and new characters and going where we haven't already been before.

Now this is a statement I can get on board with.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I also am not fond of getting re-"imagined" TOS episodes in the comic, instead of all-new material.

"The Vendetta Conspiracy" (#7), the first new storyline:
The adventures of the new crew of the Enterprise continue in this all new two-part story that takes place soon after the events of the last film! While Vulcans struggle to survive in the wake of their homeworld's destruction at the hands of rogue Romulans, and some Vulcans believe that the logical response can be summed up in one word: revenge! STAR TREK writer/producer Roberto Orci oversees this original story set in the timeline leading up to the blockbuster film sequel!
http://www.tfaw.com/Profile/Star-Trek-Ongoing-7___399587

A few details for #8, the second part of the new story, have been released, including news of an appearance by Sarek:
http://www.trektoday.com/content/2012/01/star-trek-ongoing-comic-8/

 

[Set Harth]

I can see the tagline now... REVENGE: IT'S LOGICAL

 

[Sharr Khan]

What so many seem to be missing is the writers are fully capable of writing a story that introduces Khan in a different way that makes the movie different from Space Seed or STII and anything about them.

Thank you!!! Just because a fan can't think of a way... it does not follow that there is no way to do it.

Fans often exist in a state of tunnel vision where they can't get past their own preconceptions.

As I've often said. Part of the reason for having an alternate reality is to give a new ring to "the familiar". Or they would have gone with a true blank slate with a new ship and crew and not what they ended doing.

 

[Trekkie2]

What so many seem to be missing is the writers are fully capable of writing a story that introduces Khan in a different way that makes the movie different from Space Seed or STII and anything about them.

Thank you!!! Just because a fan can't think of a way... it does not follow that there is no way to do it.

Fans often exist in a state of tunnel vision where they can't get past their own preconceptions.

As I've often said. Part of the reason for having an alternate reality is to give a new ring to "the familiar". Or they would have gone with a true blank slate with a new ship and crew and not what they ended doing.

I'm curious, as I know others are, exactly how are writers supposed to reimagine Khan, when the character started out as a tyrannical dictator, ruling over and enslaving millions. Trek history has stated that Augments are highly aggressive, ambitious, and immoral, and they were subject to killing their own kind. Later, in ENT, it was found that their DNA contained a malformation which explained their violent behavior, but the malformation could not be repaired.

They were the cause of the Great Wars of 1993 and were responsible for the deaths of millions. Augments were finally overthrown in 1996, which means that the lesser folk were not happy with them, at all. The fact that Augments were addressed in much of the same way, in ENT, as they were in TOS or TWOK, makes it quite impossible for Augments to be reimagined.

Reimagining Khan in some other way than what he was written to be is as easy as reimagining Archer to be a female in an pre-established timeline.

It worked in the remake of Battlestar Galatica, with the character of Starbuck, but that's only because the writers rewrote then entire concept of the show. There is a stark raving difference between the two shows. The writers chose not to rewrite the entire concept of Star Trek, just 25 years.

 

[Sharr Khan]

I'm curious, as I know others are, exactly how are writers supposed to reimagine Khan, when the character started out as a tyrannical dictator, ruling over and enslaving millions. Trek history has stated that Augments are highly aggressive, ambitious, and immoral, and they were subject to killing their own kind. Later, in ENT, it was found that their DNA contained a malformation which explained their violent behavior, but the malformation could not be repaired.

Why would you change any of that? And I don't remember that bit about the DNA... though its been implied augments are unstable I can't remember it being stated so equivocally or not reparable.

There's no purpose to turn him into a woman yet you can forgo Space Seed altogether by giving Khan an empire and having him wake up early (perhaps due to Nero either directly or indirectly) and establish himself as a galactic power/threat, which would not be a remake.

Just because a piece of fiction contains elements or characters which have already done stuff before, does not a remake it make.

Also Kirk should face Khan again for the same reason Superman will be facing Zod once more and that any new Batman will doubtless get his own Joker to beat - these are iconic face offs not confined to one storyteller or era.

Writers are only confined by their own mind's limits. Not some arbitrary set of restrictions - If they can think it up, and put it on paper to then be transferred to the screen - it can be done.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It worked in the remake of Battlestar Galatica, with the character of Starbuck, but that's only because the writers rewrote then entire concept of the show. There is a stark raving difference between the two shows.

Pfft - it worked because the writers went ahead and did it, and when people saw it they liked it.

 

[Trekkie2]

It worked in the remake of Battlestar Galatica, with the character of Starbuck, but that's only because the writers rewrote then entire concept of the show. There is a stark raving difference between the two shows.

Pfft - it worked because the writers went ahead and did it, and when people saw it they liked it.

As a viewer of both shows, that's not quite right. Viewers appreciated the intensity and drama that was written into the remake, not the fact that Starbuck turned out to be female and Cylon.

 

[Sindatur]

It worked in the remake of Battlestar Galatica, with the character of Starbuck, but that's only because the writers rewrote then entire concept of the show. There is a stark raving difference between the two shows.

Pfft - it worked because the writers went ahead and did it, and when people saw it they liked it.

As a viewer of both shows, that's not quite right. Viewers appreciated the intensity and drama that was written into the remake, not the fact that Starbuck turned out to be female and Cylon.

Where did you get ahold of a version of NuBSG where Starbuck was a Cylon? That never happened on SyFy Channel version of the Program?

 

[Trekkie2]

Pfft - it worked because the writers went ahead and did it, and when people saw it they liked it.

As a viewer of both shows, that's not quite right. Viewers appreciated the intensity and drama that was written into the remake, not the fact that Starbuck turned out to be female and Cylon.

Where did you get ahold of a version of NuBSG where Starbuck was a Cylon? That never happened on SyFy Channel version of the Program?

I guess I'm speculating, but the show seemed to insinuate that Starbuck (or her father?) was the 7th Cylon, Daniel (or some corporeal being), that was corrupted in vitro, by Cavil. Whether the show backtracks on the issue or not, I'm not alone. There are many, many more. And the issue of Daniel was covered in the last season.

It doesn't detract from the issue that fans were not happy that the Starbuck character was reinvented as female. The only reason it was pulled off was through the fine acting talent of Katee Sackhoff. Still, throughout the program's run, it was somewhat uncomfortable and distracting watching Starbuck as a female. Reinventing Khan, would require time travel back to before he was hatched, to prevent Augments from being created, because the genome was faulty.

 

[Sindatur]

As a viewer of both shows, that's not quite right. Viewers appreciated the intensity and drama that was written into the remake, not the fact that Starbuck turned out to be female and Cylon.

Where did you get ahold of a version of NuBSG where Starbuck was a Cylon? That never happened on SyFy Channel version of the Program?

I guess I'm speculating, but the show seemed to insinuate that Starbuck (or her father?) was the 7th Cylon, Daniel (or some corporeal being), that was corrupted in vitro, by Cavil. Whether the show backtracks on the issue or not, I'm not alone. There are many, many more. And the issue of Daniel was covered in the last season.

It doesn't detract from the issue that fans were not happy that the Starbuck character was reinvented as female. The only reason it was pulled off was through the fine acting talent of Katee Sackhoff. Still, throughout the program's run, it was somewhat uncomfortable and distracting watching Starbuck as a female. Reinventing Khan, would require time travel back to before he was hatched, to prevent Augments from being created, because the genome was faulty.

Nah, there's nothing in NuBSG that points to Kara being a Cylon in actuality. Sure, you could point at any character, and find evidence throughout the Series to say they might be a Cylon, that was done so anyone could be eventually revealed as one. But, nothing told us that she was definitively one, and the Series does give her a definitive role when all is done.

Kara's dad being Daniel was merely speculation by Fans, nothing to back this up, and I'm pretty sure it was confirmed by RDM that there was nothing more to that throwaway Converation about Daniel then exactly what was in the Conversation.

 

[Trekkie2]

Okay, well, let's get this thread back on track before someone catches us.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Where did you get ahold of a version of NuBSG where Starbuck was a Cylon? That never happened on SyFy Channel version of the Program?

No, it didn't. She wasn't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Where did you get ahold of a version of NuBSG where Starbuck was a Cylon? That never happened on SyFy Channel version of the Program?

No, it didn't. She wasn't.

[Nero]It has happened! I watched it happen! I saw it happen! Don't tell me it didn't happen![/Nero]

 

[Captaindemotion]

Just a thought, but maybe he made a simple mistake and said 'Starbuck' instead of Boomer; something of a possibility given that both changed gender in nuBSG and given that Boomer became a Cylon.

 

[Gov Kodos]

As stated in the title, if there was no Space Seed episode, how can they have a Khan Movie.

They could possibly use "Flashbacks" type footage, and can even slip Pike in place of Kirk. But have Khan come after the Captain of the Enterprise, and not have him realize, in his raged mind that Kirk isn't Pike.

Nothing preventing Khan being found on the Botany Bay once again, or found somewhere having established a colony. That is if they even use Khan again.

 

[Trekkie2]

Maybe Spock Prime will be onboard, recognize what the ship holds and say, "Shoot it!"

 

[C.E. Evans]

In a deleted scene from Star Trek XI, the Narada encountered the Botany Bay shortly after wiping out the Klingon fleet and Nero gave the order, "Destroy it, too!"

Unlike the Enterprise, however, the Botany Bay's name wasn't written in large print on her hull...

 

[CaptainMatt]

What so many here seem to misunderstand is no one is saying Trek XII will be another "Wrath of Khan" film, therefore no previous introduction to the character is needed. The story if it involves him, will give us what we need to know in one nice package.