William Shatner on Howard Stern

[Samuel T. Cogley]

William Shatner was on Howard Stern for about an hour Wednesday morning. As always, they were both hilarious. They covered many different topics, but as for something that might be relevant to this forum:

(Earlier in the interview, Howard played for Shatner some audio in which Howard's staff had cut and pasted Shatner's audio books in obnoxious and profane ways. For the rest of the interview, Shatner occasionally slipped into a mock cut and past voice for comedic purposes.)



Howard Stern: “You even say that you are upset about the new Star Trek movie. You do…You still are peeved that they are going to have a new Star Trek movie without you.”

Robin Quivers: “And Leonard is in it.”

William Shatner: “Leonard is in it… [Unintelligible interruption] I keep saying Leonard is in it and I’m not. I… I… I… They’re making a Star Trek movie without Captain Kirk. Without the old Captain Kirk.”

Howard Stern: “Right.”

William Shatner: “There’s a young Captain Kirk, so I think they had story problems and didn’t know how to solve it. But… I’m not… It’s not ‘peeved.’ I’m just disappointed. I would love to have been… and J.J. Abrams is such a great movie maker that I would have loved to.” [Unintelligible]

Howard Stern: “Yes. You would love to work with him…”

William Shatner: “I would love to work with him. But I’ve got a lot of things to do.”

Howard Stern: “You certainly do. You are on a career roll, wouldn’t you say?”

William Shatner: “I would say that it’s... uh... it's happening.”

Howard Stern: “And when you talk about a new Star Trek, and they take Leonard Nimoy and they put him in. There’s a jealousy.”

William Shatner: “No.”

Howard Stern: “A professional jealousy.”

William Shatner: “No.”

Howard Stern: “Absolutely. There’s nothing wrong with…”

William Shatner: “Leonard got most of what he asked for. I think that was really good.”

Howard Stern: “Uh... Well, maybe. He’s getting a lot of money for it?”

William Shatner: “Oh… my… God.” [Mock cut and past voice]

[Laughter]

Howard Stern: “Is that true? Do you know what he’s getting?”

William Shatner: “No. I have no idea. But.. it… is… a… lot… of… money.” [Mock cut and past voice]

[Laughter]

Howard Stern: “All right, look. You do claim that in the new book that you are upset how they killed your character off in Star Trek.”

William Shatner: “Thinking back, they were going to kill him off anyway.”

Howard Stern: “Right.”

William Shatner: “So I said… They said, well, 'Either you can be in the movie and die. Or don’t be in the movie. We’re still gonna kill you.’ So I was kind of… hung up. And I said all right, I’m being… I want to be in the movie. But, looking back, I wish they had done it with more tympanis and trumpets, as against, uh…”

Howard Stern: “You’re the… you’re the whole show. Of course they should make something dramatic there… Something that would be better...”

William Shatner: “And… and they did. But you know, in a way, I think the producer was trying to kill the character off, because it was a legacy of the old… of the old…guard”

Robin Quivers: “Right.”

William Shatner: “You know. And this guy was head of the new guard of… uh... of Patrick and…”

William Shatner and Robin Quivers together: “The Next Generation.”

William Shatner: “So I think he was trying to kill as many antecedent… like the lion killing the cubs…”

Robin Quivers: “Yeah, but you know, they have killed Star Trek. They’ve tried now to resurrect it.”

William Shatner: “Yeah.”

Howard Stern: “That’s true.”




There’s the blood in the water. Have at it, sharks.

 

[ancient]

They said, well, 'Either you can be in the movie and die. Or don’t be in the movie. We’re still gonna kill you.

Damn, they were gonna kill the SHAT if he didn't do the movie? That's pretty harsh.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Thinking about buying his new book. Anyone read it? I really enjoyed his "Memories" and "Movie Memories" books. Is "Up Til Now" on par with those?

 

[Phaser666]

Hoo Hoo. I invented William Shatner

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Well, I think Shatner was pretty reasonable. He's disappointed - that's reasonable. But he also realizes that he's got alot going on for himself and he has a right to be proud of his recent accomplishments outside of Star Trek.

Good for him.

No drama queen antics. Just a reasonable position, all 'round.

 

[maryh]

William Shatner: “So I said… They said, well, 'Either you can be in the movie and die. Or don’t be in the movie. We’re still gonna kill you.’ So I was kind of… hung up. And I said all right, I’m being… I want to be in the movie. But, looking back, I wish they had done it with more tympanis and trumpets, as against, uh…”

Howard Stern: “You’re the… you’re the whole show. Of course they should make something dramatic there… Something that would be better...”

William Shatner: “And… and they did. But you know, in a way, I think the producer was trying to kill the character off, because it was a legacy of the old… of the old…guard”

Robin Quivers: “Right.”

William Shatner: “You know. And this guy was head of the new guard of… uh... of Patrick and…”

William Shatner and Robin Quivers together: “The Next Generation.”

William Shatner: “So I think he was trying to kill as many antecedent… like the lion killing the cubs…”

"You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong" -- Abraham Lincoln.

This is what they were trying to do and it never works. IMO they also weakened the characters of McCoy, Spock and Sarek hoping to strengthen themselves.

 

[Tralah]

How did they weaken Spock's character? I guess for Sarek and McCoy you could say they showed them old and Sarek's case dying, but I think that had more to do with the fact that TNG took place when these characters were old. I don't see how showing them that way "weakened" them as characters.

 

[maryh]

How did they weaken Spock's character? I guess for Sarek and McCoy you could say they showed them old and Sarek's case dying, but I think that had more to do with the fact that TNG took place when these characters were old. I don't see how showing them that way "weakened" them as characters.

I wanted to use the female capacity to avoid an answer to any question but it does seem unavoidable.

In the old canon: "The Making of Star Trek" pp 225-226
"Complete adherence to logic is the primary motivating factor in the Vulcan mental process. Of necessity, complete suppression of emotions is required, lest logic be influenced in any way.

Over a period of many centuries, the Vulcans have both practiced both total concentration and complete suppression of emotions. From the time of his birth, a Vulcan child is taught that to show emotion is highly improper, that it is considered an extreme breach of good taste....Vulcans long ago concluded that emotion was dangerous, set about to repress it and replace it with logic. Century after century, through practice and custom they repressed emotion until they became almost incapable of it...."

TNG portrayed Sarek as suffering from the syndrome which makes him lose emotional control. IMO the old canon says Vulcans HAVE less emotions & feelings than Humans -- not just a matter of suppression, it was an evolutionary process. TNG "Sarek" claimed Vulcans have powerful emotions that they learn to suppress. Sarek loses control due to his Bendii syndrome. If this be the case the hybrid character of Spock becomes undefined. He is no different than any Vulcan who spends his life suppressing his emotions - no different than his father. However we are told numerous times that Spock has more trouble BECAUSE he has a human mother who imparted to him by birth emotions and feelings. "The Making of Star Trek" pp 228 "Because of his mother's origun, however, Spock does have a human side to his personality. A human side with emotions. The result is a continual struggle within himself to suppress his feelings..."

The redefinition has caused the distinctive emotional differences between humans and Vulcans to become weak and poorly defined weakening the Vulcan characters. IMO the original TOS canon for "Thin-blooded Vulcans" worked the best with Spock being able to be both Human and Vulcan which were actually different from eachother.

 

[Michael]

^ Did I miss the canonization of The Making of Star Trek?

 

[Kegek]

They said, well, 'Either you can be in the movie and die. Or don’t be in the movie. We’re still gonna kill you.

Damn, they were gonna kill the SHAT if he didn't do the movie? That's pretty harsh.

But seriously. In the absence of William Shatner's presence, I can see pretty much only three ways they could have killed him off in Generations:

1) Mentioned in dialogue. People talk about the fact Kirk is dead. His death or manner of death may be soemhow connected to the plot, or maybe it's a thowaway line - but he's dead. This one seems a little like a stretch. Even making his death integral to the film - say, about resolving the mystery of his death - would seem a little odd if he never really appears.
2) Body doubles, et cetera. In this case, we see Kirk die - he's just not being played by William Shatner. But, as he's only shown through this kind of sleight of hand, we never really see Kirk at all. This is even less satisfying than the first option; although a scene of his death filmed like this might be briefly shown in the context of some kind of mystery or other plot importance of his death similar to the one described above.
3) Different actor. Kirk shows up. Interacts with people. Dies on cue. But he's not the Shat. Now, I can see the rationale for recasting Kirk if one wants to reboot the film franchise, but recasting him for his last hurrah before he's laid to rest? I find this the least plausible of the three.

None of these sound that appealing, do they? They're a bit like teasing the audience with something it can't quite have. Without Shatner, I wouldn't be surprised if TPTB scrapped the kill Kirk angle and, if still inclined to make the movie a passing-of-the-baton affair, focus on whichever TOS actors they could actually get - much like they settled for Koenig and Doohan when Nimoy and Kelley wouldn't show. I could even see them killing off Spock, if they got Nimoy to consent to it, as being more plausible than the three scenarios I outlined above.

If there are some distinctions I've missed, or if you feel TPTB really would have gone through with one of the above scenarios, let me know.

And yes, I'm a boring pedant who ruined your perfectly good easygoing thread. Vale!

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

If there are some distinctions I've missed, or if you feel TPTB really would have gone through with one of the above scenarios, let me know.

It doesn't really matter if we believe it. It only matters if Shatner believed it, thereby potentially influencing his final decision.

 

[Kegek]

If there are some distinctions I've missed, or if you feel TPTB really would have gone through with one of the above scenarios, let me know.

It doesn't really matter if we believe it. It only matters if Shatner believed it, thereby potentially influencing his final decision.

Perhaps. But I'm just wondering if it could really be seen to be more than posturing on TPTB's part or if they really would have gone through with it.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Perhaps. But I'm just wondering if it could really be seen to be more than posturing on TPTB's part or if they really would have gone through with it.

Well, it's certainly good strategy on the part of TPTB, either way. (Assuming it happened as Shatner said it did.)

By telling Shatner they will kill him either way, they appeal to his ego. Of course he'd rather be involved and potentially have some level of control rather than let them have any version of Kirk without him. (Look how frustrated he is this time around, when they are proceeding without him, for example.)

Plus, it cuts his negotiating power. Any time you tell someone you can do it with them or without them, it's hard for the other person to regain the upper hand.

They probably figured the threat alone would bring him in, and for cheap. And if he didn't take the bait, they probably wouldn't have referred to Kirk at all, or possibly pursued Nimoy, etc. instead.

 

[Tralah]

TNG portrayed Sarek as suffering from the syndrome which makes him lose emotional control. IMO the old canon says Vulcans HAVE less emotions & feelings than Humans -- not just a matter of suppression, it was an evolutionary process. TNG "Sarek" claimed Vulcans have powerful emotions that they learn to suppress. Sarek loses control due to his Bendii syndrome. If this be the case the hybrid character of Spock becomes undefined. He is no different than any Vulcan who spends his life suppressing his emotions - no different than his father. However we are told numerous times that Spock has more trouble BECAUSE he has a human mother who imparted to him by birth emotions and feelings. "The Making of Star Trek" pp 228 "Because of his mother's origun, however, Spock does have a human side to his personality. A human side with emotions. The result is a continual struggle within himself to suppress his feelings..."

The redefinition has caused the distinctive emotional differences between humans and Vulcans to become weak and poorly defined weakening the Vulcan characters. IMO the original TOS canon for "Thin-blooded Vulcans" worked the best with Spock being able to be both Human and Vulcan which were actually different from eachother.

Wow, I disagree entirely. I thought the TOS showed us how Vulcans can lose control of their emotions in "Amok Time" so the fact that there is a disease that also makes them lose their inhibitions does not seem like a far stretch for me. I ALWAYS thought Vulcans had powerful emotions and the only way they saved their society from destruction was to work on controlling and suppressing those emotions. Doesn't "Balance of Terror" hint at this?

Spock: "Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period – savage, even by Earth standards. And if the Romulans maintain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show."

Using non canon sources like the ones you quoted don't really amount to much since only what's shown on screen actually counts.

I always took Spock's inner struggle between his Vulcan and Human half to mean that his human half made the struggle to control emotions even harder than it was for the average Vulcan. Spock had more cards stacked against him, and the fact that he succeed as much as he did was a testament to his own fortitude.

 

[ST:RPG]

Price-Line Negotiator!

Looks like negotiations fell through this time around...

oh, wait, yeah.. JJ said "You're character is already dead." but.. he's young in your movie JJ.. um, I'm confused.

eff it!

Who wants to see fat old Capt. Kirk? I saw enough of that in the 70's (which were already re-runs before I was even 10 years old!) !!

 

[ST:RPG]

TNG portrayed Sarek as suffering from the syndrome which makes him lose emotional control. IMO the old canon says Vulcans HAVE less emotions & feelings than Humans -- not just a matter of suppression, it was an evolutionary process. TNG "Sarek" claimed Vulcans have powerful emotions that they learn to suppress. Sarek loses control due to his Bendii syndrome. If this be the case the hybrid character of Spock becomes undefined. He is no different than any Vulcan who spends his life suppressing his emotions - no different than his father. However we are told numerous times that Spock has more trouble BECAUSE he has a human mother who imparted to him by birth emotions and feelings. "The Making of Star Trek" pp 228 "Because of his mother's origun, however, Spock does have a human side to his personality. A human side with emotions. The result is a continual struggle within himself to suppress his feelings..."

The redefinition has caused the distinctive emotional differences between humans and Vulcans to become weak and poorly defined weakening the Vulcan characters. IMO the original TOS canon for "Thin-blooded Vulcans" worked the best with Spock being able to be both Human and Vulcan which were actually different from eachother.

Wow, I disagree entirely. I thought the TOS showed us how Vulcans can lose control of their emotions in "Amok Time" so the fact that there is a disease that also makes them lose their inhibitions does not seem like a far stretch for me. I ALWAYS thought Vulcans had powerful emotions and the only way they saved their society from destruction was to work on controlling and suppressing those emotions. Doesn't "Balance of Terror" hint at this?

Spock: "Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period – savage, even by Earth standards. And if the Romulans maintain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show."

Using non canon sources like the ones you quoted don't really amount to much since only what's shown on screen actually counts.

I always took Spock's inner struggle between his Vulcan and Human half to mean that his human half made the struggle to control emotions even harder than it was for the average Vulcan. Spock had more cards stacked against him, and the fact that he succeed as much as he did was a testament to his own fortitude.

Want to hear something else that was on-screen in TOS ??

Shatner wearing a waist-belt under his shirt to hold in his BIG FAT GUT!!

 

[ST:RPG]

They said, well, 'Either you can be in the movie and die. Or don’t be in the movie. We’re still gonna kill you.

Damn, they were gonna kill the SHAT if he didn't do the movie? That's pretty harsh.

Yeah, but if replying to your drivel helps me get through these ridiculous 50 posts I need just to get a fracking avatar, so be it.

 

[ST:RPG]

You know, there's a reason Howard Stern is on paid radio. No one wants to pay him to be on free radio.

And for good reason: the guy is an idiot. He's an embarasment to his sponsors and to NBC, the company he /did/ work for.

Shatner...I see you have a lot in common with Hillary Clinton. The show is over, time to give it up.

You two are like that lone soldier on the island for 30 years, still fighting the war...not realizing WWII was over a long time ago.

Thundercats! Ho!

 

[Akiraprise]

Price-Line Negotiator!

Looks like negotiations fell through this time around...

oh, wait, yeah.. JJ said "You're character is already dead." but.. he's young in your movie JJ.. um, I'm confused.

eff it!

Who wants to see fat old Capt. Kirk? I saw enough of that in the 70's (which were already re-runs before I was even 10 years old!) !!

TNG portrayed Sarek as suffering from the syndrome which makes him lose emotional control. IMO the old canon says Vulcans HAVE less emotions & feelings than Humans -- not just a matter of suppression, it was an evolutionary process. TNG "Sarek" claimed Vulcans have powerful emotions that they learn to suppress. Sarek loses control due to his Bendii syndrome. If this be the case the hybrid character of Spock becomes undefined. He is no different than any Vulcan who spends his life suppressing his emotions - no different than his father. However we are told numerous times that Spock has more trouble BECAUSE he has a human mother who imparted to him by birth emotions and feelings. "The Making of Star Trek" pp 228 "Because of his mother's origun, however, Spock does have a human side to his personality. A human side with emotions. The result is a continual struggle within himself to suppress his feelings..."

The redefinition has caused the distinctive emotional differences between humans and Vulcans to become weak and poorly defined weakening the Vulcan characters. IMO the original TOS canon for "Thin-blooded Vulcans" worked the best with Spock being able to be both Human and Vulcan which were actually different from eachother.

Wow, I disagree entirely. I thought the TOS showed us how Vulcans can lose control of their emotions in "Amok Time" so the fact that there is a disease that also makes them lose their inhibitions does not seem like a far stretch for me. I ALWAYS thought Vulcans had powerful emotions and the only way they saved their society from destruction was to work on controlling and suppressing those emotions. Doesn't "Balance of Terror" hint at this?

Spock: "Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period – savage, even by Earth standards. And if the Romulans maintain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show."

Using non canon sources like the ones you quoted don't really amount to much since only what's shown on screen actually counts.

I always took Spock's inner struggle between his Vulcan and Human half to mean that his human half made the struggle to control emotions even harder than it was for the average Vulcan. Spock had more cards stacked against him, and the fact that he succeed as much as he did was a testament to his own fortitude.

Want to hear something else that was on-screen in TOS ??

Shatner wearing a waist-belt under his shirt to hold in his BIG FAT GUT!!

They said, well, 'Either you can be in the movie and die. Or don’t be in the movie. We’re still gonna kill you.

Damn, they were gonna kill the SHAT if he didn't do the movie? That's pretty harsh.

Yeah, but if replying to your drivel helps me get through these ridiculous 50 posts I need just to get a fracking avatar, so be it.

You know, there's a reason Howard Stern is on paid radio. No one wants to pay him to be on free radio.

And for good reason: the guy is an idiot. He's an embarasment to his sponsors and to NBC, the company he /did/ work for.

Shatner...I see you have a lot in common with Hillary Clinton. The show is over, time to give it up.

You two are like that lone soldier on the island for 30 years, still fighting the war...not realizing WWII was over a long time ago.

Thundercats! Ho!

One infraction for trolling, although all four are good candidates. Comments to my PM box if anybody has any.

One warning for spamming. Two posts in a row in one thread is the rule. That's why we have multiquote.

 

[maryh]

TNG portrayed Sarek as suffering from the syndrome which makes him lose emotional control. IMO the old canon says Vulcans HAVE less emotions & feelings than Humans -- not just a matter of suppression, it was an evolutionary process. TNG "Sarek" claimed Vulcans have powerful emotions that they learn to suppress. Sarek loses control due to his Bendii syndrome. If this be the case the hybrid character of Spock becomes undefined. He is no different than any Vulcan who spends his life suppressing his emotions - no different than his father. However we are told numerous times that Spock has more trouble BECAUSE he has a human mother who imparted to him by birth emotions and feelings. "The Making of Star Trek" pp 228 "Because of his mother's origun, however, Spock does have a human side to his personality. A human side with emotions. The result is a continual struggle within himself to suppress his feelings..."

The redefinition has caused the distinctive emotional differences between humans and Vulcans to become weak and poorly defined weakening the Vulcan characters. IMO the original TOS canon for "Thin-blooded Vulcans" worked the best with Spock being able to be both Human and Vulcan which were actually different from eachother.

Wow, I disagree entirely. I thought the TOS showed us how Vulcans can lose control of their emotions in "Amok Time" so the fact that there is a disease that also makes them lose their inhibitions does not seem like a far stretch for me. I ALWAYS thought Vulcans had powerful emotions and the only way they saved their society from destruction was to work on controlling and suppressing those emotions. Doesn't "Balance of Terror" hint at this?

Spock: "Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period – savage, even by Earth standards. And if the Romulans maintain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show."

Using non canon sources like the ones you quoted don't really amount to much since only what's shown on screen actually counts.

I always took Spock's inner struggle between his Vulcan and Human half to mean that his human half made the struggle to control emotions even harder than it was for the average Vulcan. Spock had more cards stacked against him, and the fact that he succeed as much as he did was a testament to his own fortitude.

Is there anyway we can move our subdiscussion to its own thread? I want to reply but this is too far off the topic of this thread. Can you start a new one related to our discussion?