Will they ever bring back Legends?

[Kibbin]

Post-ANH Pre-ESB isn’t a new toy either, but they’ve already done several dozen comics and a couple novels set in that period.

But as I said there isn't the "where's Han?" "Should we rescue Han?" yet hanging over them. Post ANH and pre ESB is a cosy time for our heroes where they just kind of run around doing any old mission you want for the Rebellion. While RotJ is the interesting what happens next time period. It was the same in the old cannon. I'm sure they will put a story in there sooner or later. We got a movie about stealing the death star plans so I'd be very surprised if there isn't a comic or something about them tracking down and trying to intercept Bob a Feet.

 

[The Wormhole]

But as I said there isn't the "where's Han?" "Should we rescue Han?" yet hanging over them. Post ANH and pre ESB is a cosy time for our heroes where they just kind of run around doing any old mission you want for the Rebellion. While RotJ is the interesting what happens next time period. It was the same in the old cannon. I'm sure they will put a story in there sooner or later. We got a movie about stealing the death star plans so I'd be very surprised if there isn't a comic or something about them tracking down and trying to intercept Bob a Feet.

Then don't do a story involving Luke and Leia. The Ghost crew probably had plenty on their plates in this time period, we don't know what Dr. Aphra was up to, maybe we can get something Wedge centred? None of these would involve the dilemma of "do we rescue Han today or not?"

 

[Kibbin]

Then don't do a story involving Luke and Leia. The Ghost crew probably had plenty on their plates in this time period, we don't know what Dr. Aphra was up to, maybe we can get something Wedge centred? None of these would involve the dilemma of "do we rescue Han today or not?"

I said that earlier that if we wanted to do stuff in this time period you just avoid the 3 L's (Luke, Leia and Lando). I'm all for a Wedge series fleshing out the Rebellion after their defeat at Hoth and having to rebuild before Endor.

 

[fireproof78]

I said that earlier that if we wanted to do stuff in this time period you just avoid the 3 L's (Luke, Leia and Lando). I'm all for a Wedge series fleshing out the Rebellion after their defeat at Hoth and having to rebuild before Endor.

Then, is your point that "You can't do a post ESB/pre ROTJ story" with the main characters? Because, the argument "You can't do the story because you know the end (i.e. put the toys back)" makes zero sense in terms of story telling capability.

 

[thribs]

The JJVerse book will only be interesting if they delved more closely into what makes that universe more different to that of the Prime. Did something happen in Archer’s time that caused them to radically alter the design atheistics of their ships? Perhaps this so called “Xindi War”?

 

[fireproof78]

The JJVerse book will only be interesting if they delved more closely into what makes that universe more different to that of the Prime. Did something happen in Archer’s time that caused them to radically alter the design atheistics of their ships? Perhaps this so called “Xindi War”?

What explanation is needed other than them preparing to face down a gigantic Romulan ship threat?

 

[Tuskin38]

Not everything needs an explanation.

 

[fireproof78]

Not everything needs an explanation.

Nope. Never needed one on the Kelvin ships.

 

[Reverend]

The JJVerse book will only be interesting if they delved more closely into what makes that universe more different to that of the Prime. Did something happen in Archer’s time that caused them to radically alter the design atheistics of their ships? Perhaps this so called “Xindi War”?

Probably just the ripple effect combined with the butterfly effect. Think of all of the temporal events that occurred between the time Kirk was born, to the time Romulus was destroyed. We know of dozens from just four crews across two centuries and most of those incursions were either from or too periods of history outside that window.
So it's not just possible the effect reach backwards in time before the Romulan incursion, it's damned likely that it had a profound, yet subtle effect on several centuries worth of history.

 

[Kibbin]

Then, is your point that "You can't do a post ESB/pre ROTJ story" with the main characters? Because, the argument "You can't do the story because you know the end (i.e. put the toys back)" makes zero sense in terms of story telling capability.

Then I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. It doesn't preclude it but as far as I'm concerned it does dampen it and the fact that the old universe only did one major release in that time period kind of backs me up.

What explanation is needed other than them preparing to face down a gigantic Romulan ship threat?

I think he might be on about the fact that the ships pre Nero were already over sized and having windows on the bridge indicating that the time line was already somewhat different to the original one we know.

 

[fireproof78]

Then I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. It doesn't preclude it but as far as I'm concerned it does dampen it and the fact that the old universe only did one major release in that time period kind of backs me up.

The fact that we have had so many prequels makes me inclined to disagree. Also, several anthology stories, and comics in the same time frame.

I think he might be on about the fact that the ships pre Nero were already over sized and having windows on the bridge indicating that the time line was already somewhat different to the original one we know.

For me, the Kelvin being larger doesn't mean "it's completely new!" It means that Starfleet has several different sizes of ships, which stands to reason for a large, space going, organization. Instead of going more towards smaller ships, perhaps with more compact equipment like the duotronics, they moved towards larger to address an immediate threat.

It never made sense to me the assumption that we had seen every Starfleet vessel in TOS era.

 

[Kibbin]

The fact that we have had so many prequels makes me inclined to disagree. Also, several anthology stories, and comics in the same time frame.

As I said my point isn't about all prequels but that time period is a bit limiting to writers that is all.

For me, the Kelvin being larger doesn't mean "it's completely new!" It means that Starfleet has several different sizes of ships, which stands to reason for a large, space going, organization. Instead of going more towards smaller ships, perhaps with more compact equipment like the duotronics, they moved towards larger to address an immediate threat.

It never made sense to me the assumption that we had seen every Starfleet vessel in TOS era.

Yeah but it doesn't exactly blend in with the design asthetic that we saw but again just because you were okay with it doesn't mean you can't see where people are coming from. They had to redesign the whole universe due to legal reasons. Now they worked that reason in to the plot but the bit before that still had to be legally distinct and thus they reworked the whole of starfleet for a new aesthetic. Some people appreciate that new redesign and others don't but it is a change.

 

[Tuskin38]

the USS Kelvin pre-dated Kirk's 5 year mission by 30 years, if you ignore the size of the ship, I think the aesthetic works fine as Pre-TOS. I could see it being an evolution of ENT era ships.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah but it doesn't exactly blend in with the design asthetic that we saw but again just because you were okay with it doesn't mean you can't see where people are coming from. They had to redesign the whole universe due to legal reasons. Now they worked that reason in to the plot but the bit before that still had to be legally distinct and thus they reworked the whole of starfleet for a new aesthetic. Some people appreciate that new redesign and others don't but it is a change.

It blends fine as a transition from ENT to the USS Kelvin. I don't care about the legal reasons for changes. I'm more interested in the in universe rationale, if one is needed. I really don't need one to work with the Kelvin starships though.

As I said my point isn't about all prequels but that time period is a bit limiting to writers that is all.

You and I will disagree on how the limits some how preclude stories. Prequels, by definition, are limited.

 

[Kibbin]

You and I will disagree on how the limits some how preclude stories. Prequels, by definition, are limited.

Yes they are, this one a bit more limiting than others. That's all. As I said all you've got to do between ANH and ESB is keep the three alive and make sure Han doesn't pay off his debt. Want them to take a two week vacation to Canto Bight then that's fine. Want them to delve into hidden Jedi Temples then rock and roll. With the gap between V and VI you are working toward a concrete set goal. One that is set at the end of V. Anywhere else and you're just kind of fighting for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes they are, this one a bit more limiting than others. That's all. As I said all you've got to do between ANH and ESB is keep the three alive and make sure Han doesn't pay off his debt. Want them to take a two week vacation to Canto Bight then that's fine. Want them to delve into hidden Jedi Temples then rock and roll. With the gap between V and VI you are working toward a concrete set goal. One that is set at the end of V. Anywhere else and you're just kind of fighting for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

I am still failing to see why such limits preclude storytelling Shadows of the Empire did fine, several short stories worked well, and there are even more possibilities that I have alluded to. I feel like the argument is that "this is too limited so don't try." Which, I don't agree with.

 

[Kibbin]

I am still failing to see why such limits preclude storytelling Shadows of the Empire did fine, several short stories worked well, and there are even more possibilities that I have alluded to. I feel like the argument is that "this is too limited so don't try." Which, I don't agree with.

Yes Shadows was fine but how many did they do? I'm sure there were more than that in the old cannon but were there many? Not to my knowledge. Again I've never said you can't do any my point was you can't do many without the feeling of getting nowhere. I also haven't said don't try and some great movies at least were born out of creatively trying to get around problems (Jaws and Alien come to mind) just that it's a bit daunting and there are other time periods that are bit more open and inviting to a writer.
Also as I've also said if you loose focus on Luke, Leia and Lando then the time period is wide open. It's just a bit more risky to try and launch a new series; comic, book or other even in the Star Wars universe but you could easily do a series about the Rebellion readying for the final all out against the Empire and if you ditch both the Empire and Rebellion and focus on some smugglers or door to door book sellers then you're golden. And before you say anything I know about doctor Alpha and I know about Rebels and so on and I want to say that I'm not saying you can't launch one only that it is more risky than having your book based on a main character.
If there were any more hedging in this post I could open a botanical garden.

 

[fireproof78]

It's just a bit more risky to try and launch a new series; comic, book or other even in the Star Wars universe but you could easily do a series about the Rebellion readying for the final all out against the Empire and if you ditch both the Empire and Rebellion and focus on some smugglers or door to door book sellers then you're golden. And before you say anything I know about doctor Alpha and I know about Rebels and so on and I want to say that I'm not saying you can't launch one only that it is more risky than having your book based on a main character.
If there were any more hedging in this post I could open a botanical garden.

I would hope they would take that risk. It would be nice if for once studios would take risks rather than playing it safe for years and years. Dr. Aphra is a great example and a character who started out with Darth Vader and branched out to her own series. How is that not risky yet being successful?

 

[WebLurker]

In regards to the OP, no, I think Legends is done. I can't see really any incentive to return to book series that they can't really market as being tied to the new movies.

Also if IIRC, the Fantasy Flight games and other table top RPGs are considered legends, or at the very least non-canon.

The newer releases use canon ships and characters, but the background information/lore in the source books isn't considered canon.

I have a lot of those books. The line was started before the reboot, so a lot of the older stuff was Legends-only, which has shifted to more canon stuff. A lot of new stuff is practically only based on canon material, but some stuff blend canon and Legends together. It's quite the hodgepodge, though; the core book for the Rebellion-centric stuff had the Legends history of the Rebel Alliance while a later supplement used the canon history, thus having contradictory info in the line. IMHO, the game's fluff isn't useful from a canon standpoint, but is perfect for the game itself; you can run both Legends and canon campaigns as you wish and/or borrow from either as you will. (Case in point, I prefer to run canon-based games, but I like stealing stuff from Legends, so I like having the info for using Legends species and ships, since it allows for a more detailed universe to play in.)

wookieepedia lists a couple of the modules as canon, but I'm pretty sure they're not.

Yeah, I don't think that anything in the game books is actually canonical (although most of the information the Wook uses is stuff that's based solely on canon materials).

My number one request is to incorporate elements (or the entirety) of Shadows of the Empire into the new canon.

Shadows of the Empire cannot be fit into canon now; the Moving Target novel shows what Leia was up to during the timeframe of Shadows... making the story impossible to work with. The Forces of Destiny web series also provided an alternate explanation on where Princess Leia got her bounty hunter disguise.

However, Black Sun has been canonized through Clone Wars and so have the Faleen aliens (in fact, their appearance in those shows was modeled on Xizor to a T).

[QUOTE="Alidar Jarok, post: 12518979, member: 2043"Seriously, if they release an animated Shadows of the Empire movie, I know I'd buy it.[/QUOTE]

That would be fun, although if they did that, wouldn't it get like a PG-13 or an R rating; the book goes into some pretty steamy stuff when Xizor tries to get into Leia's pants.

 

[JD]

All of the movies since ROTS, except the animated The Clone Wars, are already PG-13, so that wouldn't be a change.