Yeah I know money talks an all that. The plot would have to be brilliant , something game changing like the Borg assimilate a major Federation planet either Earth or Andor. And it takes two sequels to return things to normal
Will The Borg be back?
- Thread starter GulBahana
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Let's face it, options are limited at this point. We're a year on from Beyond's release and we still don't know if another movie is going to be made. If another one is made it has to be a success, or it's game over for the Kelvin timeline. It's not my first choice for ST4 but I can see the appeal. A borg movie is no guarantee of success, but all things considered, what is? Klingons? Cumberbatch again?
^'There be whales here'!
As much as I'd watch it, you can't escape that it would be a total retread of TVH. At least the with the Borg or Klingons they could try something slightly different with them, whatever that is.
The reboot went to the trouble of creating a parallel universe purportedly in order to allow creating new stories. So far, this has only been used as an easy way to give our characters intense motivation by destroying Vulcan in the first movie. Let's see them come up with something else that couldn't have been done in the "prime universe" before dipping back into the old well again. If going through the pains of splitting the timeline was only useful for one story, then I'd say it was an embarrassingly wasteful and short-sighted decision.
Problem is, Beyond has kind of backed them into a corner. They tried a new story, fresh villain, no-one really gave a shit, and it failed at the box office.
The difference between Beyond and the other Star Trek films that featured original villains/plots at least had a TV show to build popularity for the heroes as they were. Kelvinverse has no corresponding TV show to have built a seasons-long fanbase with.
I've posted a few times they went through all the trouble of setting up Kelvin universe ONLY to force Khan into second movie ham handed.
Destroy Vulcan, anything can happen, so let's use parts of space seed n TWOK. That said I've watched many times
Beyond was good, BUT Orchi s craptastic script got him removed from ST3 n Pegg Jung had only 6 months to write a script before filming started. Usually that's 12 to 18 months to write a script. So wasn't going to be 100% dialed in in that time frame. Script needed a couple more re writes to flush out, BUT I've watched it a ton n enjoy it as characters closer to TOS versions imo
No Borg please, a well written script with adventure, action, n thoughtfulness
Krall could have stood to be more defined. As much as I enjoyed Beyond the villain was not the reason why I enjoyed it.
Secondly, the villain wasn't as fresh, and it was much lamented. He was another "after revenge against *fill in the blank* the same Nero and Khan."
ST ID, for its failings, at least had a well define villain in Marcus and then Khan stepping up as a more extreme threat, without the burden of loyalty.
Finally, Paramount's poor marketing is often very much lamented.
On topic, please no Borg!
Remember Beyond was rumoured to involve the Borg (Kralls droid army being revealed to be the Borg or something) remember reading an IMDB message board post about it (when was still active) in the months before and then around time of the premiere risked a glimpse on the message board and briefly saw 'it is the Borg!' and thought 'oh man I just had it ruined. Again!' (was spoiled badly for STID just after Australian premiere where someone on TM.com said it was Khan and Kirk dies but is revived by Khans blood!)
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Wasn't Nero's ship supposed to be augmented with Borg tech? I think that was in the comics or something but I can't be sure.
^It was in the comics, and yes, Nero's ship was made with Borg technology, which accounts for the green glowing weapons and the way they penetrated everything, being only vulnerable to a ram from another ship.
I enjoyed Beyond, but I wouldn't call it a new story in the sense that it was anything that couldn't have been done in the Prime timeline.
My post was just a bit of venting over the frequent wailing about how constrained writers felt by all the Trek canon - implying that, if they only had free reign to work outside those constraints, they'd be able to create much more intersting stories. I'm waiting...
You could apply that logic to any story to be fair. I'm not knocking it, I loved Beyond, it's right up there with my favourite trek films, my point is that at least it wasn't in any way a retread, homage, call it what you will, which is a complaint frequently levelled at it's predecessor (which is only partially true at a stretch). Any callbacks or Easter eggs were much more skilfully woven into the film too. My criticism is that the villain was a little generic and the story was not 'big' enough. It was all a bit too self contained for my liking.
Where they should go from here is anybodies guess.
I agree with everything you said. My point is that there wasn't much of a reason to create a new timeline.
It's a fair point. They could have just said, "Pffsh, it's a reboot. Get over it. It's gonna be different because we said so." And that should've been enough.
Steampunk is too faddish if not toward the end of the hype. Doesn't look realistic, anyway.
CGI for body movement would also look out of place, though rendering technology has improved... but sufficiently so? May as well use a Commodore 64 to render the CGI and they'd be no less well off.
If they go the Doctor Who route and make them have loud silly clomp clomp noises and how whole regimens can be made to blow up by staring at them with a pair of sonic sunglasses on, forget it. Would be nice to have some intelligent sci-fi again...
I was spoiled too, but it didn't diminish my enjoyment of ST ID.
I avoided spoilers for Beyond and I don't know if that experience was altered. Still a blast in the theaters and on rewatch.
Care to provide an example of what you mean? I thought Kelvin films had enough characters and commentary to make them intelligent enough without too much hand-holding or on the nose allegory.
Without seeing the larger picture of how else the effects of Nero's incursion and subsequent divergent events rippled across the years to cause new, wouldn't-happen-in-the-prime-timeline problems (besides reaching for the "because Kirk's dad would have been instrumental in stopping it"/"because the destruction of Vulcan left a vacuum behind" obvious answers), you could theoretically argue that anything which happens in the alternate reality that you've never even heard of before (aside from things you already know didn't happen, like Earth being destroyed) could have happened in the prime reality, too, albeit to some other ship/crew which isn't there, rather than Kirk and co.
This whole "intelligent sci-fi" criticism about Trek movies doesn't make sense to me. Because how well-received or financially successful a Trek movie is has nothing to do with how the film's IQ is perceived. And that's important -- it's all about perception. TMP is considered a "cerebral" movie (and I do think it has interesting ideas) and it was a bomb. First Contact, on the other hand, is beloved by most fans and was very financially successful but it has as much action as Die Hard and not a brain cell in its head. It's a dumb but thoroughly entertaining action movie. So this whole "Kelvin movies aren't thinky enough" criticism just doesn't hold water for me.
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