Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble film?

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

The fact that Uhura spends so much of her "on the clock" time fawning over or nagging Spock is, if anything, sexist. IMHO, the relationship was wedged in for the same reason Alice Eve's undie scene was wedged in. It was a cheap attempt at fan-service.

Wrong. Completely wrong.

 

[Dales]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

But a secondary character who happens to be female and happens to have a relationship with a guy is suddenly weak

I think you have that backwards.

Women, traditionally, sought power through their romantic relationships with men. You know, marrying into wealth, royalty, etc... So wouldn't it be more progressive for Uhura to not be dating the ship's first-officer? All that does is open up questions of nepotism, just as it would in a real-life workplace situation. At its worst, nuTrek Uhura comes across like a Yoko Ono figure, someone who is untouchable because she's "the girlfriend", therefore she feels she can prance around the bridge and whine about her relationship in a way that wouldn't fly if her boyfriend were not the first-officer. I would imagine any other up-and-coming crewmember who wanted to be in her spot would despise her, for good reason.

As for Saldana, I think she said a while back she wished that any future films would allow her to move the relationship with Spock to the back-burner or have them formally break up. The whole idea of the Bechdel test is to not write women in such a way that their whole lives revolve around their relationships with men. The fact that Uhura spends so much of her "on the clock" time fawning over or nagging Spock is, if anything, sexist. IMHO, the relationship was wedged in for the same reason Alice Eve's undie scene was wedged in. It was a cheap attempt at fan-service.

It is used to be usually femme fatales sort power because of their relation ships with men.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

The fact that Uhura spends so much of her "on the clock" time fawning over or nagging Spock is, if anything, sexist. IMHO, the relationship was wedged in for the same reason Alice Eve's undie scene was wedged in. It was a cheap attempt at fan-service.

Wrong. Completely wrong.

I have to agree.

I think Uhura actually demonstrated her talents outside of her relationship, as well as inside her relationship. Spock tries to avoid nepotism, but Uhura points out her qualifications, as well as stands up to Kirk on Kronos to try and negotiate her way out.

Uhura comes across as a multi-facted, 3-dimensional, person. In my opinion, she probably is the most heroic of the main cast, in terms of actions and reactions to situations.

Make her the captain

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Fan service would pump up the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triad - not replace McCoy with Uhura. The point has been made before that Zoe Saldana's star is brighter than Karl Urban's, currently, so Uhura gets the spotlight. I don't know if that's true, but it's a theory, and it doesn't fit "fan service." Also, Alice Eve's undie scene is more Man Service than Fan Service. As a fan, I wanted something closer to the Bibi Besch characterization of Carol Marcus and far more of her interacting with Kirk - not what we got.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Given the uneven footing with which Kirk and Marcus start out, I think that their relationship is, understandably, not the same interaction as older Kirk and Marcus.

Given what Marcus was up to, I don't blame her for being a little more guarded around the Enterprise crew. That was why I was hoping Eve would make it back for STB so that they could have that rapport.

 

[Malaika]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

But a secondary character who happens to be female and happens to have a relationship with a guy is suddenly weak

I think you have that backwards.

Women, traditionally, sought power through their romantic relationships with men. You know, marrying into wealth, royalty, etc... So wouldn't it be more progressive for Uhura to not be dating the ship's first-officer?

For that matter, in hollywoodland women of color, traditionally, are rarely the love interest in a mutual loving relationship with an iconic character like Spock who, some might argue, was and still is considered a fan favorite and sex symbol.
'Traditionally', if the writers were cliché, Uhura would be nothing but 'sassy friend' and 'strong independent black woman who don't need no man'. Making her the prize (the girl the 'hero' wants but SHE already chose the nerdy man with whom she might have more in common) - when previously the prize was, if anyone, Spock - might be progressive for many.
(To many, even giving the romance to Spock - the traditional sidekick of hero - and not Kirk is also against hollywood standards)

But what are we even talking about here? Holy hyperbole but should women decide to become nuns 'to make a point' now? Really? What a tragic irony is the fact that feminism for some has obviously became a pretext to hold women to double standards and exploit sexism.
Where I live this is called concern trolling.

All that does is open up questions of nepotism, just as it would in a real-life workplace situation.

The only character who might be an example of nepotism is Kirk (Pike's favorite, Mccoy's - his friend - help?)
Again, it is disingenuous to constantly hold a relationship to double standards just because a woman is involved, and yet not have issues with dynamics between males that are worse.

As for Saldana, I think she said a while back she wished that any future films would allow her to move the relationship with Spock to the back-burner or have them formally break up.

I follow all her interviews and I honestly only remember her saying the opposite and even joking about them 'making some vulcans' by trek 4-5.
There was a bit of tease while promoting stid when she was forced to not even reveal if they were together or not so she was vague enough for JJ's heart content, but when it comes to what she wants, she had always been all about the romance to continue (Quinto too)
Here's her most recent quote about them (unless you count her thanking JJ for the romance when she delivered him an award some months ago)* while replying to a sexist question (they asked if she wanted them to break up so Uhura could be 'part of the team' again whatever that even means. Some are obviously in good company when it comes to having a certain mindset about women..) and she said:

“They have such a special bond.*It would be nice to see Uhura do more stuff, but I feel that JJ Abrams and his team of writers did such a great job in the sequel*and I am pretty sure for the third installment we will see Uhura be more hands on as well.*It would be heartbreaking for me*to know that they would break up and are not together.”
​

I remember, also, another interview that was interesting and quite in topic in terms of why she might disagree with your own kind of 'feminism' here in that, when asked about which one of her characters she'd go asking advices to, she picked Uhura whom she considers more progressive and balanced in a way nowadays women are not entirely allowed to be due to the standards they have to fit in to get considered 'strong' (she made a point in the past that she hates that word when people use it for her characters because her main concern is playing real women point period)
In light of everything I read or heard her saying about Uhura and women in general, she'd have to contraddict herself big time to say the stuff you claim she said.

The whole idea of the Bechdel test is to not write women in such a way that their whole lives revolve around their relationships with men.

The whole idea of the bechdel test is that quantity is >> quality and somehow, someone thought that a set of rules can arbitrarily establish the quality of something.
Personally, I don't care about a movie following a list of rules to be considered feminist
I'd rather have one female character who interacts only with men but is written well and is interesting to me, than have plenty of mediocre insignificant characters who win a (imo) stupid 'test'.
There are plently of 'perfect' and 'bechdel approved' female characters that yet I can't find myself seeing them as outstanding, progressive, memorable.

Fan service would pump up the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triad - not replace McCoy with Uhura.* The point has been made before that Zoe Saldana's star is brighter than Karl Urban's, currently, so Uhura gets the spotlight.* I don't know if that's true, but it's a theory, and it doesn't fit "fan service."

In reality, Zoe is quasi A list only now she wasn't back when they filmed the first movie and wrote a script that gave to Uhura a more active and prominent role. So I don't think their choice was all about her star status as much as it was a need they felt to make the reboot more a product of this time rather than the 60s.
I also honestly think it's a writers/director preference. JJ and Orci/Kurtzman are used to have leading ladies in their works and Uhura, who is a pretty iconic character, was a natural choice I think. The fact Zoe became the sci-fi queen, lol, was luck.

And honestly, if it was hard for the sexist 60s to truly have 3 male protagonists (such a thing is an urban legend for me. The so called trio had always been a duo for me) it figures nowadays.

I also think some can convincingly argue that Uhura and Mccoy had, in the first movie especially, the same screentime (will find back that great meta someone wrote about that. Stand by)
Uhura simply is the lead lady so that gets some attention while promoting and it's more noticeable because in the old thing she really was just a background character
Mccoy has to compete with two male protagonists (and the male villain) thus he becomes redundant in promotional material just like the other guys.

 

[Dales]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

But a secondary character who happens to be female and happens to have a relationship with a guy is suddenly weak

I think you have that backwards.

Women, traditionally, sought power through their romantic relationships with men. You know, marrying into wealth, royalty, etc... So wouldn't it be more progressive for Uhura to not be dating the ship's first-officer?

For that matter, in hollywoodland women of color, traditionally, are rarely the love interest in a mutual loving relationship with an iconic character like Spock who, some might argue, was and still is considered a fan favorite and sex symbol.
'Traditionally', if the writers were cliché, Uhura would be nothing but 'sassy friend' and 'strong independent black woman who don't need no man'. Making her the prize (the girl the 'hero' wants but SHE already chose the nerdy man with whom she might have more in common) - when previously the prize was, if anyone, Spock - might be progressive for many.
(To many, even giving the romance to Spock - the traditional sidekick of hero - and not Kirk is also against hollywood standards)

But what are we even talking about here? Holy hyperbole but should women decide to become nuns 'to make a point' now? Really? What a tragic irony is the fact that feminism for some has obviously became a pretext to hold women to double standards and exploit sexism.
Where I live this is called concern trolling.





The only character who might be an example of nepotism is Kirk (Pike's favorite, Mccoy's - his friend - help?)
Again, it is disingenuous to constantly hold a relationship to double standards just because a woman is involved, and yet not have issues with dynamics between males that are worse.




I follow all her interviews and I honestly only remember her saying the opposite and even joking about them 'making some vulcans' by trek 4-5.
There was a bit of tease while promoting stid when she was forced to not even reveal if they were together or not so she was vague enough for JJ's heart content, but when it comes to what she wants, she had always been all about the romance to continue (Quinto too)
Here's her most recent quote about them (unless you count her thanking JJ for the romance when she delivered him an award some months ago)* while replying to a sexist question (they asked if she wanted them to break up so Uhura could be 'part of the team' again whatever that even means. Some are obviously in good company when it comes to having a certain mindset about women..) and she said:

“They have such a special bond.*It would be nice to see Uhura do more stuff, but I feel that JJ Abrams and his team of writers did such a great job in the sequel*and I am pretty sure for the third installment we will see Uhura be more hands on as well.*It would be heartbreaking for me*to know that they would break up and are not together.”
​

I remember, also, another interview that was interesting and quite in topic in terms of why she might disagree with your own kind of 'feminism' here in that, when asked about which one of her characters she'd go asking advices to, she picked Uhura whom she considers more progressive and balanced in a way nowadays women are not entirely allowed to be due to the standards they have to fit in to get considered 'strong' (she made a point in the past that she hates that word when people use it for her characters because her main concern is playing real women point period)
In light of everything I read or heard her saying about Uhura and women in general, she'd have to contraddict herself big time to say the stuff you claim she said.

The whole idea of the Bechdel test is to not write women in such a way that their whole lives revolve around their relationships with men.

The whole idea of the bechdel test is that quantity is >> quality and somehow, someone thought that a set of rules can arbitrarily establish the quality of something.
Personally, I don't care about a movie following a list of rules to be considered feminist
I'd rather have one female character who interacts only with men but is written well and is interesting to me, than have plenty of mediocre insignificant characters who win a (imo) stupid 'test'.
There are plently of 'perfect' and 'bechdel approved' female characters that yet I can't find myself seeing them as outstanding, progressive, memorable.

Fan service would pump up the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triad - not replace McCoy with Uhura.* The point has been made before that Zoe Saldana's star is brighter than Karl Urban's, currently, so Uhura gets the spotlight.* I don't know if that's true, but it's a theory, and it doesn't fit "fan service."

In reality, Zoe is quasi A list only now she wasn't back when they filmed the first movie and wrote a script that gave to Uhura a more active and prominent role. So I don't think their choice was all about her star status as much as it was a need they felt to make the reboot more a product of this time rather than the 60s.
I also honestly think it's a writers/director preference. JJ and Orci/Kurtzman are used to have leading ladies in their works and Uhura, who is a pretty iconic character, was a natural choice I think. The fact Zoe became the sci-fi queen, lol, was luck.

And honestly, if it was hard for the sexist 60s to truly have 3 male protagonists (such a thing is an urban legend for me. The so called trio had always been a duo for me) it figures nowadays.

I also think some can convincingly argue that Uhura and Mccoy had, in the first movie especially, the same screentime (will find back that great meta someone wrote about that. Stand by)
Uhura simply is the lead lady so that gets some attention while promoting and it's more noticeable because in the old thing she really was just a background character
Mccoy has to compete with two male protagonists (and the male villain) thus he becomes redundant in promotional material just like the other guys.

That is a lot to take in.

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

I expected a lot more than that vacant seven word analysis after quoting a large post. How about contemplating first, then posting? What a senseless waste of mouse battery life.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: Will Star Trek 3 be a Kirk & Spock centric film or An Ensemble fil

Uhura is a cool chick. This is indisputable.