Will he tell them that Discovery ended up in the 32nd century by time travel to protect the sphere data or keep lying about it being a generation ship?
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Spoilers Will Saru tell the Federation/Starfleet the truth?
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
- Start date
Yes.
He lied to the Earth Defense Force because they weren't the Federation. But I think he'll tell the actual Federation about when they're from. Even if he lied, they'd be able to tell just by scanning Discovery's quantum signature.
But I do think the higher-ups in what's left of Starfleet Command might tell Discovery to publicly go with the cover story.
But I do think the higher-ups in what's left of Starfleet Command might tell Discovery to publicly go with the cover story.
Starfleet--or what's left of it--may already know about the Discovery, and it may be simply a matter of connecting the dots upon her arrival. Even though much of the ship was designated top-secret 900+ years ago, Starfeet probably still has classified files that are even older, IMO.
Yeah. Why would Saru give people almost a millennium in the future classified data.
Surely the Rommies might get a hold if it.
Surely the Rommies might get a hold if it.
Why would Section 31 still be around? Isn't the Federation pretty much gone?
(Makes one wonder why there's still a Starfleet if there's no Federation for it to protect.
)
They existed before the Federation, so maybe they outlasted it. Their original remit was to protect Earth, so maybe they've fallen back to that. Isolating Earth sound like something in their wheelhouseWhy would Section 31 still be around? Isn't the Federation pretty much gone?
(Makes one wonder why there's still a Starfleet if there's no Federation for it to protect.
Why would Section 31 still be around? Isn't the Federation pretty much gone?
(Makes one wonder why there's still a Starfleet if there's no Federation for it to protect.
Section 31 originates within the Starfleet Charter, even if there was some "protect the Federation" stuff in DS9, and Enterprise showed us that they were in action before the Federation.
The Federation/V'draysh exists, although we don't know if Starfleet is still intrinsically tied with it. It probably is. But if they're an independent agency or broke off to form their own private military or something, Section 31 probably went with Starfleet. Because Section 31 really is just part of the Starfleet Charter, and kind of emanates from a loose interpretation of it.
I wager 200 quatloos that Admiral The Guy From The Mummy is actually a remnant of Control, and he'll be like, "suprise, bitches! I'm an AI, waiting 900 years don't mean shit to me!"
The whole idea was to keep things out of the reach of Control. But apparently this only involved taking said things to the future - and NOT taking them to the future in secrecy! I mean, not only could Control be expected to have figured it out that part during the big battle, but Burnham even goes to extra trouble to signal to Control that this indeed happened. She sends a "We are still here!" signal some four months after the battle, utilizing her time machine for the purpose and thus telling Control pretty much all it needs to know.
Well, okay, not all: Control won't learn where in time Carmen Sandiego might be hiding exactly, and apparently this signal appearing "51k ly away in Beta Quadrant" won't give Control any relevant spatial coordinates, either. But it now knows that it only needs to wait.
Which is sorta doubly silly. Why didn't Burnham insist that the heroes travel to the past instead? Waiting would then not have helped Control much. (Okay, so in theory there would then have been TWO sets of Red Sphere Data around for a while, with only one of them assuredly removed from the timeline at the conclusion of the battle. But searching through space would probably be way more frustrating than waiting, and the heroes could have used all the time they gained for devising a proper method of either proofing the Data against Control, or then simply preventing Control from ever being born...)
Timo Saloniemi
Well, okay, not all: Control won't learn where in time Carmen Sandiego might be hiding exactly, and apparently this signal appearing "51k ly away in Beta Quadrant" won't give Control any relevant spatial coordinates, either. But it now knows that it only needs to wait.
Which is sorta doubly silly. Why didn't Burnham insist that the heroes travel to the past instead? Waiting would then not have helped Control much. (Okay, so in theory there would then have been TWO sets of Red Sphere Data around for a while, with only one of them assuredly removed from the timeline at the conclusion of the battle. But searching through space would probably be way more frustrating than waiting, and the heroes could have used all the time they gained for devising a proper method of either proofing the Data against Control, or then simply preventing Control from ever being born...)
Timo Saloniemi
What makes you think the Federation that still exists wouldn't ultimately be able to discern the truth for itself through surviving records. If it's a Federation that had access to the entirety of Federation history, they'd Be able to pretty quickly validate that this was the USS Discovery from the 23rd century.
Or a high quality copy thereof, created for sinister purposes. After all, if the records are that good, and you have programmable matter...
It would be a bit like presenting photographic evidence of UFOs today. The time window for that closed years ago!
Timo Saloniemi
It would be a bit like presenting photographic evidence of UFOs today. The time window for that closed years ago!
Timo Saloniemi
Not so sure.
I'm pretty certain they'd have ways of detecting whether something is fraudulent or not (programmable matter or not).
Officially, Starfleet detected a quantum singularity at last known location of Discovery.
The hull likely exhibits certain evidence of temporal displacement that 32nd century Starfleet would be able to detect with their technology.
From that point on, along with using the ship's own hull registry... it would be pretty simple to put two and two together.
Spock did suggest that all evidence pertaining to Discovery be classified (aka, no one of Disco's knowledge should speak of them)... so its likely that only the higher-ups would have knowledge of Disco and may have kept the data (if it wasn't erased) sealed.
But, if all data pertaining to Discovery's existence was erased from historical data, then future SF/Federation wouldn't have any means to 'put two and two together.
"Regulation 157, Section Three,
requires Starfleet officers
to abstain
from participating
in historical events.
Any residual trace or knowledge
of Discovery’s data,
or the time suit,
offers a foothold
for those who might not see
how critical,
how deeply critical,
that directive is.
Therefore, to insure the
Federation never finds itself
facing the same danger,
all officers
remaining with knowledge
of these events must be
ordered never to speak
of Discovery, its spore drive,
or her crew again.
Under penalty of treason."
Also, Stamets already told Adira of the Spore Drive and that they were from the 23rd century... and Booker put two and two together (and Burnham may have told him the rest during her year of waiting for Disco).
I'm not sure though if Disco's entire existence was erased.
Starfleet still had data that the ship existed (because they constructed it), along with its spore drive and had copies of its mission logs, crew records, etc.
If those records exist and were simply sealed, then SF officers who had knowledge of the ship, its drive and crew would be sworn to secrecy... the data may still exist in sealed records that only higher ups may access (but only if the situation merits it)... unless that was erased... at which point, knowledge of Discovery would simply vanish into history (for the most part).
Anyway, considering that Booker and Adira already know Disco time traveled to the future, would there be any point in concealing the identity of the ship from the rest of SF/Federation?
Burnham also told Booker they left the past to ensure a future.
They may tell SF/Federation that they are from the 23rd century, but they might also say that they are not at liberty to discuss the details as to WHY they had to travel through time... and could simply maintain the notion that certain things about Discovery must remain classified.
Albeit, given Disco's Spore drive being in use... its doubtful that 32nd century SF/Feds won't notice that... and at that point, they may disclose the full details only to the higher-ups.
would there be any "surviving records?" the idea was that discovery essentually disappear. would it even be in official records a few years after it left the twenty-third century. quiety all mention were deleted. during the course of nine hundred years how many starships were named discovery? twenty? thirty?
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The 23rd century USS Discovery WAS in the official records and fought with distinction in the Klingon war. - what was 'covered up' was the manner of her loss - IE she was listed as destroyed by a matter anti-matter core breach. Also, at the time there was ZERO mention of the Spore Drive tech <--- And that aspect was what was treasonous to discuss.
Well that admiral has like a million pips and swishes so ide say it's fairly safe to assume he has a lot of clearance
As far as we know, spore travel leaves no trace whatsoever. Timehole travel of the "Such Sweet Sorrow"/"That Hope Is You" style is marked by high gamma and gravimetric waves, except in the case of the Seven Red Signs which never get associated with the telltales of our heroes flying to the future, even when they travel to the future USING what is essentially a Red Sign - so apparently Red Sign travel leaves little in the way of a signature, too, as also evidenced by Gabrielle B:s ability to come and go as she pleases. So the heroes run a relatively low risk of getting caught using their two superpowers, the spore drive (which seems to work fine) and the Angel Suit (which they can build more of at will, as long as they obtain further time crystals).
The spore drive appeared to be top secret from its invention to its "destruction"/departure in 2257-58. Top secret records are probably easier to utterly destroy than more public ones, there being fewer copies and a lesser incentive for those in charge to be uptight about the law. But would those in charge want to destroy the records? Especially if folks like Spock made arguments that they should? Then again, if the spore drive secret was stashed away for future use, odds are that the stash would be forgotten when those wishing to profit pass away.
Timo Saloniemi
The spore drive appeared to be top secret from its invention to its "destruction"/departure in 2257-58. Top secret records are probably easier to utterly destroy than more public ones, there being fewer copies and a lesser incentive for those in charge to be uptight about the law. But would those in charge want to destroy the records? Especially if folks like Spock made arguments that they should? Then again, if the spore drive secret was stashed away for future use, odds are that the stash would be forgotten when those wishing to profit pass away.
Timo Saloniemi
This.
I'd imagine verifying Discovery's existence wouldn't be a problem for 32nd century Starfleet if the crew divulges some information that time travel was involved, and that due to the sensitivity of circumstances, they couldn't delve deeper into WHY they time jumped... but had no choice to ensure a future (keep it vague enough to leave out 'Control' and Sphere Data - if necessary).
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