Will Pine be commanding as Captain as Shatner was? (Eg Space Seed)

[Cadet49]

"Space Seed" came on TV the other day. I was impressed by Shatner's performance opposite Montobaun (spelling?), and the amount of command presence Shatner brought to the character, and it made me wonder if Pine would be able to exhibit that same presence in those scenes... I don't picture his version of Kirk referencing Milton and the Botany Bay reference the way Shatner's Kirk did. I am very curious to see Pine's performance in Star Trek 2, to see if he can pull off the same command presence in the centre seat, now that he's "THE captain". I really like the new cast, and liked Pine as an "untried, brash cadet Kirk", but am curious to see how he delivers "Captain Kirk" to the audience.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Did you see the bit where Kirk gave Sulu his orders just before beaming over to the Narada? That's command presence.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I think Chekov should have the con and the first meeting with Khan. That way when they eventually remake Wrath of Khan (which should probably be Star Trek 12) the scene with Khan and Chekov will have more gravitas.

 

[Set Harth]

The con is on.

 

[Sean Aaron]

That was actually unintentional, but amusing now that you've pointed it out!

 

[malchya]

I think that Pine has the ability to project "command presence." The real question is whether or not the character will be written in a sufficiently mature fashion to allow the actor to do so. If Kirk has not matured between the films and remains the juvenile delinquent we have already seen, then my answer would be; "No. Pine will not be able to nail a quarterdeck attitude as well as Shatner."

 

[Sean Aaron]

I'd tend to agree. I'll be interested to see how they portray him beyond the cadet status of the first film. There have been a few years, so Pine will have hopefully matured as an actor as well presumably - I presume he's been working in some fashion the past few years?

 

[Enterprise is Great]

The con is on.

The Khan is on.

 

[Franklin]

I think that Pine has the ability to project "command presence." The real question is whether or not the character will be written in a sufficiently mature fashion to allow the actor to do so. If Kirk has not matured between the films and remains the juvenile delinquent we have already seen, then my answer would be; "No. Pine will not be able to nail a quarterdeck attitude as well as Shatner."

Jim Kirk was supposed to be a natural leader of men. We don't know the point at which he discovered that abililty in the Prime Universe, but we know it was probably earlier than when Kirk discovered it in ST09.

We had to see Kirk grow in ST09 for the story to make sense. Even in this next movie, he'll be more inexperienced than the Kirk we saw in TOS, but I'd like to think they (the writers) have given us a more mature Kirk in this story. I mean, sooner or later, we have to (deserve to?) see Kirk in full bloom as in TOS, and they don't have ten movies in which to do it.

Can Pine pull it off as an actor? Why not? I thought he got the better parts of Kirk's nature down very well in ST09. He certainly carries Kirk with the same kind of presence that Shatner did.

 

[M'Sharak]

I'd tend to agree. I'll be interested to see how they portray him beyond the cadet status of the first film. There have been a few years, so Pine will have hopefully matured as an actor as well presumably - I presume he's been working in some fashion the past few years?

Quite a bit, in fact, including a run on stage with "The Lieutenant of Inishmore" to positive critical response. I think, though, as someone else said upthread, that it's more the writing that will tell which way the portrayal of Kirk goes in the next movie.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I just took a peek at the slashy GUSHING K/S love thread and Pine says something very revealing in an interview (not slashy, don't worry): in effect, his character is using bravado to mask insecurity and fear about living up to the standard set by his dead Starfleet hero dad.

Well, that gives a pretty good entry for the next film where the character needs to go: strip away the bravado, reveal the true Kirk, add some gravitas and sincerity to the character, and that's all he really needs to be "commanding" and fulfill his self-image of a live Starfleet hero.

I'm pretty sure Abrams has Kirk's arc planned out and we don't need to worry about it. It all seems pretty well mapped out, with huge hints being left already.

 

[Cadet49]

Did you see the bit where Kirk gave Sulu his orders just before beaming over to the Narada? That's command presence.

"yeah, he was ok there. I didn't find him overly commanding when the bridge was cracking in the black hole when he was yelling, "Do it do it do it" frantically at Scotty - you never saw prime Kirk yelling in terror like that, even when the ship was near destruction (e.g. Balance of Terror or Doomsday Machine) - this Kirk yelps when running from alien monsters on the ice planet!

 

[Scribe31us]

From what I am led to believe, there has been no novels of the Prime Universe post the timeline of the 2009 movie because the plot of trek 2013 was undecided. However, IDW has released an excellent comic series, chronicling the five year mission. Some nice stuff with Pine's Kirk especially for 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' and "Galileo Seven' as well as Spock/Uhura interaction. Those were permitted I think so that when the next movie does appear, Kirk's a bit more seasoned.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Did you see the bit where Kirk gave Sulu his orders just before beaming over to the Narada? That's command presence.

"yeah, he was ok there. I didn't find him overly commanding when the bridge was cracking in the black hole when he was yelling, "Do it do it do it" frantically at Scotty - you never saw prime Kirk yelling in terror like that, even when the ship was near destruction (e.g. Balance of Terror or Doomsday Machine) - this Kirk yelps when running from alien monsters on the ice planet!

The Kirk of the tv series was a more experienced man and commander. He was probably a decade older than the Kirk of nu-Trek, with a long period of command under his belt. He was simply more adept at dealing with stressful and frightening situations.

Kirk's not meant to be a Vulcan, he doesn't hide his emotions. I think most people being chased by alien monsters would yelp.

 

[Set Harth]

The con is on.

The Khan is on.

Potato, tuber.

 

[Franklin]

Did you see the bit where Kirk gave Sulu his orders just before beaming over to the Narada? That's command presence.

"yeah, he was ok there. I didn't find him overly commanding when the bridge was cracking in the black hole when he was yelling, "Do it do it do it" frantically at Scotty - you never saw prime Kirk yelling in terror like that, even when the ship was near destruction (e.g. Balance of Terror or Doomsday Machine) - this Kirk yelps when running from alien monsters on the ice planet!

The lack of experience of the entire crew was showing in the scene after the destruction of Nero's ship.
-- A more experienced Spock would've been monitoring the situation and warned Kirk it was time to leave before the ship nearly got caught in the black hole.
-- A more experienced Kirk wouldn't have become target-fixated on Nero's ship to the point of forgetting the possibility that he was endangering his own ship.
-- I can't imagine a more experienced Scotty having to rack his brain the way he did in the crisis in order to come up with a solution that honestly didn't seem all that innovative.

-- Although it was a different scene, a more experienced Spock would've been more open-minded to Kirk's reasons for going after Nero and deferred to him rather than setting out to join the fleet in the Laurentian system. Let's not forget Spock's choice would've doomed Earth.

My point is, we caught glimpses of brilliance in them, but we certainly saw none of them at their best. They were in character, but they were younger and less experienced than we knew them to be.
Let's wait and see if the characters are more comfortable in their skins and even more familiar in the coming movie. I'll bet they are.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

In the timeline we are used to, Kirk was an established captain.

In this movie we met him as a cadet.

Original timeline Kirk has his mother and his father in his life. The "new" Kirk was deprived of George's presence in his life, and is reminded by everyone and their brother that his father died a hero.

Maybe Kirk thought it would be better to be a screwup than fail to live up to his father's memory?

We saw a ship full of green officers trying to cope.

Pine nailed Kirk's swagger and charm. I am sure that he can deepen Kirk if the character is written that way.

 

[F. King Daniel]

-- Although it was a different scene, a more experienced Spock would'vebeen more open-minded to Kirk's reasons for going after Nero and deferred to him rather than setting out to join the fleet in the Laurentian system. Let's not forget Spock's choice would've doomed Earth.

I was reminded a lot of "The Galileo Seven", and Spock's poor command choices there. But, in the case of STXI, Spock was coming apart at the seems after his mother was murdered and his world destroyed. I'm not so sure Spock Prime would have been able to cope any better after such extreme stress and shock. It was way beyond anything he had to deal with in TOS.

 

[Franklin]

Pine nailed Kirk's swagger and charm. I am sure that he can deepen Kirk if the character is written that way.

Oh, yes!

-- Although it was a different scene, a more experienced Spock would'vebeen more open-minded to Kirk's reasons for going after Nero and deferred to him rather than setting out to join the fleet in the Laurentian system. Let's not forget Spock's choice would've doomed Earth.

I was reminded a lot of "The Galileo Seven", and Spock's poor command choices there. But, in the case of STXI, Spock was coming apart at the seems after his mother was murdered and his world destroyed. I'm not so sure Spock Prime would have been able to cope any better after such extreme stress and shock. It was way beyond anything he had to deal with in TOS.

Good comparison. "The Galileo Seven" was not Spock Prime's finest moment.
Your remarks about Spock coming apart at the seams over Vulcan being destroyed remind me of when Spock Prime told Kirk, "Believe me. I am emotionally compromised." Spock Prime accepted how the tragedy affected him. Spock couldn't. It's all about maturity.

 

[Origami Chicken]

I happen to think this is a great question. With no inside knowledge... i'd almost bet that Kirk/Pine will make some type of major error in this film, one that is either dealt with later on at the end, or perhaps in the third. They need to show him growing, and one grows the most from failure.

Its hard to recall now but in "Wrath" it was considered shocking that Kirk would get caught "with his britches down". At the end of the scene he berated his own performance... and learned from it during the Mutara chase sequence.