Spoilers Will Aldis Hodge and Annabelle Wallis return for Season 3?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by The Butter Phantom, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. The Butter Phantom

    The Butter Phantom Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Do you think Aldis Hodge and Annabelle Wallis return as Craft and Zora in Season 3?

    I think Zora will definitely come back. Without Starfleet and no knowledge of the future, she can be a guide of sorts for 33rd Century customs. Perhaps she's still connected to some sort of Federation library archive so can inform them of things that have happened?

    Craft, I have no idea how he could return, but he seemed like a good way to introduce the threat of the future possibly evil Federation.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The thing is, "Calypso" doesn't take place in the same future that Discovery went to. "Calypso" is set in a future where Discovery has been sitting there abandoned for nearly 1000 years, not one where it jumped 930 years into the future in one go. So either it's in an alternate 33rd century where Discovery never went forward in time (and Control never destroyed all life), or it's in the 42nd century, if the 1000 years started from sometime after the ship arrived in the 32nd.
     
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  3. The Butter Phantom

    The Butter Phantom Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    There's so much we don't know about S3. Is it possible the crew travelled forward in time 930 years but left the Discovery behind in some sort of time void?
     
  4. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We have no idea what happens after Season 2. It's entirely possibly for something to happen that gets us from where Discovery leaves at the end of "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II" to where it is in "Calypso". Or maybe not. It's like going from the end of Back to the Future, Part I where the DeLorean goes to 2015 to suddenly going to Back to the Future, Part III where it's been buried for 70 years in 1955.

    In other words: "Calypso" can still happen and a lot can occur between where the second season ended and where the Short begins. We're missing a lot of information.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's my point. People are just assuming that there's going to be a connection, but given what the season finale revealed, that's very, very far from a foregone conclusion. Yes, it's possible, but my point is that it's not a given. And getting there would be more complicated than a lot of people seem to be assuming.
     
  6. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Short Trek "Calypso" is, in my opinion, and agreeing with a previous post, a pre curser to a possible finale of Season 3, where the crew has long abandoned the ship after getting (somehow) back to their present.
    The ships evolved computer (Zora) is strictly adhering to the orders of a long departed, and in her timeline, dead Captain. (By sticking around its position in space)
    So its set 1,000 years after the time that Burnham and Co jumped to.
     
  7. starbuck

    starbuck Captain Captain

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    Or when they filmed calypso, they never knew how disc season final was going to go
     
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  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That seems likely, due to the showrunner change and the evident retooling of the story arc. It's possible that "Calypso" is no longer canonical at all, or at least that it represents an alternate future to the one the show is now in. We just don't know enough to say.
     
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  9. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Or 1,010 or 1,020 years, if they flew around in the ship for a while. It'll be a boring S3 if they aren't flying the ship and exploring the future Beta quadrant.
     
  10. Commander Richard

    Commander Richard The Man With the Zapper Gun Premium Member

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    "Living Witness" ;)

    Can't wait to see how "Calypso" lines up with what we saw on the show, assuming it does. It's the one thing I've been thinking about since the finale.
     
  11. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't it clear that the Sphere Data becomes Zora, or am I confused?
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Given the change in showrunners and story arcs, we don't know if Michael Chabon knew anything about the "sphere data" when he wrote "Calypso." It's possible that the new showrunners reworked the arc to lead to something like "Calypso," but it doesn't quite add up. What we know is that Zora said she'd been waiting there for her crew to return for almost 1000 years. That's not the same thing as the ship and crew jumping forward 930 years together. If "Calypso" happens, then, it must happen more than 1930 years after season 2 -- the 930-year jump, then however long the ship spends in the future before it gets abandoned, then Zora's nearly 1000 years of waiting.
     
  13. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's what I'd assumed.
     
  14. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    Long enough for descendants of the Long Ago to forget what Tuesdays are
     
  15. serabine

    serabine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    My favorite theory is that the crew has to evacuate at some point from the ship in a crisis, Georgiou is staying behind on the ship in what she thinks is a suicide mission (tying into her conversation with mama Burnham about sacrificing herself), but which actually throws her back into the past with the ship (just in time, heh, for the Section 31 show). In the hope to help the crew stuck in the future, she and Tyler (and maybe the Enterprise) decide to park the ship somewhere with an AI to maintain it, to avoid detection by third parties, and to go try to find the crew at their last position known to Georgiou when "the time is right".

    (All this so the chances are better that I get more Aldis Hodge in my Star Trek. )
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Except that Craft is from outside the Federation -- the "V'draysh" are his enemies, the ones whose escape pod he stole and whose Betty Boop cartoons he couldn't turn off. So it's possible the V'draysh still do remember Tuesdays, along with Betty Boop and all the other Long Ago stuff.

    Arguably one of the most improbable things in the episode is that "Taco Tuesday" -- a regional taco-restaurant promotional gimmick that's apparently gotten big in the Western US but that I'd never even heard of until The LEGO Movie -- would be iconic enough to be remembered a millennium (or two) in the future.
     
  17. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No one knows. Even the writers don't know.
     
  18. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    Maybe Taco Tuesday becomes a big deal in the 22nd century. it's new to me too.

    I still suspect Craft's people are human of Earth origin. In the 23rd century Alcor IV was not inhabited, so his species, presumably human (or one of those TOS and ENT species that look human but aren't from Earth, ) were seperatists that break off from the UFP for long ago. Maybe Alcor IV is part of its own league of planets or whatever opposed to the Vedraysh
     
  19. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh boy, if we start decanonizing episodes that actually appeared on TV, that will open up a can of worms. I am aware of only one episode (TATV, and don't you dare say otherwise) that was on TV but is not canon. Everything else is canon, for better or worse. So even if they never address Calypso directly, as long as Discovery is still functional after series finale, it is still it's destiny to be abandoned for 1000 years.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, Craft is explicitly human, but there's no rule that says all humans have to be in the Federation. We already know of human populations that aren't, like the colonies in "Up the Long Ladder" and "The Masterpiece Society," for example. And as those of us in the United States must know if we've ever taken a history class, it is possible for a colony to become independent from, and even go to war with, its founding nation.


    Voyager's own producers disavowed "Threshold" as an apocryphal story over 20 years ago. There have been other stories over the decades that have been implicitly treated as apocryphal and contradicted by subsequent canon, like "The Alternative Factor" with its bizarre, warped version of how antimatter works, or ST V with its ridiculously short trip to the center of the galaxy. And there are borderline cases, like DS9 ignoring or changing virtually everything "The Host" established about the Trill beyond the basic idea of their symbiotic nature. "Canon" has never, ever, ever been a uniform, consistent thing in Star Trek; fans have just gotten very good at denial and rationalization in order to buy into the fantasy that it fits together.

    "Canon" just means the overall body of stories by the creators or owners of a franchise, as opposed to tie-ins or fanfiction. Lots of canons ignore or overwrite parts of themselves, like how Marvel Comics constantly rewrites its timescale to pretend that stories from the 1960s happened only 10-12 years before the present, or how Dallas retconned a whole season as a dream. A canon is an overall whole that pretends to represent a consistent reality, but since it is just pretending, that means individual details don't always remain consistent in actual practice. Canon is the whole, not the parts.