Did you really just say, if they want black people on the show they should go to Africa?
Spoilers Wild Blue Yonder grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Yes, they should do some stories in 1666 set in Africa. Why not? Showing minorities as equals in society living on grand estates or attending universities is liberal white washing of their crimes. They did it when Arya Stark was on the show, they had a nordic society and half of them were black - can you imagine how ridiculous it would have been if you went back to Egypt and half of them were white?
It's cowardice cause they don't want to write too many stories that are non-Western centric, so will just stick them in randomly to situations that make no sense.
I think he just said ‘if they want Black Historical figures they should look at History in Africa, which they never do’ in fairness.
Whilst there may be an undertone to it, and not the kind of comment I would make, it’s definitely not how you present it here.
Personally, I think finding actual non-white historical figures isn’t all that hard if a writer really tries, and I think Mary Seacole was wasted by being used as a character in Flux.
The likelihood of us ever seeing an equivalent of ‘The Aztecs’ but in Africa is roughly zero, no matter how fascinating that might be to see.
Let alone something as interesting as a companion like Jamie, but from another continent — that has the possibility of being cool and interesting too, but won’t happen.
As to Newton, I am not much fussed that they went with what might be called ‘ambiguously brown’ casting, and the chap seemed alright - if not actually good or great - in what was a silly scene. I also really liked Tesla a couple of seasons back.
I did not expect a bottle episode at the 60th anniversary special, that beside it was a good mystery episode
No matter how hard you try, this is not an example of the Mandela effect.
That same season had another episode set in 1599 where Martha worried about dealing with the racism of the time and the Doctor just shrugged and said "walk like you own the place, no one will notice."
Modern Doctor Who has regularly shown the past as more diverse than we tend to think. Moffat once addressed this in an interview by saying something like "the stories might be set in the past but that doesn't mean they can't still reflect how the present should be." This even got addressed within the narrative in one of Capaldi's episodes, where Bill comments "the past isn't as white as history would have you think." The Doctor then responds with "neither was Jesus."
You should probably get used to this as we're likely to be seeing more of it over the next three years with a black Doctor.
Finally. Thankyou.
It might, though, and that's the central issue with RTD's decision via a vis Tennant.
The Metacrisis Tenth Doctor was still the Tenth Doctor, so, no, there's not a 'technically' here.
David Tennant's Doctor Who filmography reads 'Tenth Doctor (2005-2010)' and 'Fourteenth Doctor (2023)', not 'Tenth Doctor (2005-2010), 'Metacrisis Tenth Doctor (2009)', and 'Fourteenth Doctor (2023)'.
Who has always had an element of "unseen divine" going on, which I have managed over the years to put down to the TARDIS being sentient and having stolen a Time Lord for her own purposes.
But this mini series seems to have ramped that up to eleven, with all characters but especially the Doctor being little more than puppets in the hands of some All Knowing Force. This episode was just more of that on top of "why this face?" "Why now?"
The doctor doesn't feel like an agent any more. RTD has always played that to a degree (it makes for more angst). But it seems worse than ever. Mind, Flux was in that category too - maybe why it's now being mentioned.
I'm really hoping we get a more 'in control' Doctor in 15. And maybe an answer to the string pulling in the Toymaker?
But this mini series seems to have ramped that up to eleven, with all characters but especially the Doctor being little more than puppets in the hands of some All Knowing Force. This episode was just more of that on top of "why this face?" "Why now?"
The doctor doesn't feel like an agent any more. RTD has always played that to a degree (it makes for more angst). But it seems worse than ever. Mind, Flux was in that category too - maybe why it's now being mentioned.
I'm really hoping we get a more 'in control' Doctor in 15. And maybe an answer to the string pulling in the Toymaker?
This post highlights another problem I had with the episode that I hadn't even mentioned: the 'gravity/mavity' joke, which was juvenile and not actually as clever as RTD likely thought that it was.
It’s a paradox. If Donna created the change by making her joke and Newton mishearing it, and it’s rippled down her timestream enough that she uses the term ‘mavity’ then she can’t make the joke to be misheard in the first place, as she would actually say mavity. I mean, as threading a word in to mess up the universe goes, or to foreshadow someone (The Doctor) having to hit a big undo button at some point goes…
Taken on its own, that was a solidly okay episode. It remains to be seen whether certain elements are setups for things that will happen later, and that may retroactively make this episode seem a bit better. Or not. Its event status is due entirely to David Tennant and Catherine Noble, and Bernard Cribbins's all too brief appearance.
I know how the joke worked practically and narratively; it still doesn't mitigate or change my opinion that it (the joke itself) was juvenile and stupid.
I wasn't a fan of that in the Capaldi era either, I see it as a white washing of the racist endeavour that was the British Empire and continuing to act like it was a force for good. I'd be disappointed if it is never addressed with Ncuti either. I agree with Avery Brooks (and by extension, Sisko) about it when he had issues with holodeck stuff displaying the 1960s. I think having more non-white people in future episodes should be encouraged, like in The Expanse where it felt like there were too many white people.
I rated this special a D. Its a script "worthy" of the Chibnall era, saved from being complete trash by The 10/14th Doctor and Donna being much stronger characters then the story deserves. Honestly though, if it wasn't for seeing Wilfred again I'd have given it an F just for the Timeless Child reference, and the contradicting of The Doctor's actual meeting with Isaac Newton (although since Isaac Newton was definitely white, you can easily argue that the guy in this episode's opening gag was some random person).
Its funny how RTD will play nice with Chibnall's crap, but will retcon Classic Who stuff on a whim (although I doubt RTD has watched a single second of Classic Who, at least since it originally aired, so its probably ignorance/not caring and not active malevolence). Then again, RTD was the one who originally hired Chibnall to write for Doctor Who, so of course there is going to be some nepotism in his treatment of Chibnall's work. I expect to see the "Cyberwoman" pop up any day now
Its funny how RTD will play nice with Chibnall's crap, but will retcon Classic Who stuff on a whim (although I doubt RTD has watched a single second of Classic Who, at least since it originally aired, so its probably ignorance/not caring and not active malevolence). Then again, RTD was the one who originally hired Chibnall to write for Doctor Who, so of course there is going to be some nepotism in his treatment of Chibnall's work. I expect to see the "Cyberwoman" pop up any day now
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You can't retcon something when there's no official binding Canon to adhere to.
Jesus fuck, Kirk. RTD is probably a bigger fan of Classic Who than anyone. He just doesn't think the silly bits of the series can't have fun poked at them with the stick that's up the arses of fans like you.
