Why would God send someone to hell over suicide?

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I read that stimuli applied to the limbic system in the brain can induce effects that are similar to religious ecstasy. One of the proposed causes of near-death experiences is that this region of the brain becomes starved of oxygen. I'm neither a brain surgeon nor a mystic, though.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I've heard that, although it runs into problems with some of the REALLY unusual experiences some people have reported. As for my own case, I wasn't hooked up to machines--no one got a brain reading so I have no idea what was happening to me physically while this was going on. That said, though, what I CAN say is that the experience was not muddled or confused at all, as we might expect of a starving brain. Great lucidity is the mark of those experiences, not just the emotion. My mind was firing on all cylinders...it was extremely logical, detailed, and the level of mental awareness as to what was happening to me was VERY high.

In the end, I have to decide what it means to me by faith. But the experience itself...like I said, ignoring it borders on the impossible.

 

[Rusty phaser]

It might seem easy to dismiss the small, everyday graces. It's a lot harder to do after you've had visions. Mind you, this is not something that happens frequently to me, not something I ask for, nor is it something I "profit" from in any manner (i.e. I am not some sort of clairvoyant). I do not indulge in drugs, mind-altering substances, alcohol, or cigarettes (and unfortunately even had to stop with the coffee thanks to stomach problems), so that's not a factor. I also know what lucid dreaming feels like, as well as a number of hypnogogic and other semi-conscious states, and this did not line up at all with them as far as the feel, the mental awareness, the coherence of the scenario, and a number of other things. But, I've had some experiences that were of such a degree of power that I simply cannot ignore them. In the most powerful case, there is even the possibility that I nearly died. And what happened to me then, what I saw, what I felt, what I was on the verge of becoming...I just cannot walk away from that.

Nor can I walk away from the immense beauty of the natural world and the way in which it was designed. To study math and science is a transcendent experience, and I mean that. During the period in my life when I was not going to church and I was experiencing very severe doubts...all I can say is that to be in the classroom then, studying those things, was like being in the most wonderful cathedral imaginable. It still is. Whoever came up with that title "The Cold Equations"...don't let your algebra teacher fool you. They were wrong. Calculus sure isn't cold or void. It's hard to explain how, but there is amazing divine warmth in it and my grades might not always have been the best, but when I was listening to the lectures, there was so much LIFE in it that engaging the material became an act of prayer. The same goes for the study of ANY science, to include evolutionary science, quantum physics, and cosmology--all those supposedly "troublesome" sciences. Studying these will restore one's sense of wonder and awe at the magnitude of Creation and Creator in a heartbeat.

I'd call such things positive bias . You see what you want to see.

I'm a nuclear physicist (i.e. a "quantum mechanic") and also work part-time as a calculus teacher, but still I get the exact opposite feeling as you do. I.e. that there is no creator at all. If one for example studies quantum mechanics you learn that a divine plan that works flawlessly without active intervention is impossible due to the uncertainty principle. You also learn the tools you need to construct the models we use to explain the universe as we know it today - and those models are so much more logically consistent than any religion .

Of course we don't learn about the very beginnings of the "pre-universe", but neither do we from any religion so ...

 

[Jayson]

Am I the only person who thinks it is impossible to have faith in a God. To have faith you have to have no doubt at all in what you beleive. That is impossible to do when there isn't any strong evidence to prove God's exstience. My belief in God is sort of like my beleif the Saints are going to win the Super Bowl this year. I think there is a God but I might be wrong. There is a good chance my belief is wrong. I think people get the idea of faith and beliefs mixed up. I think alot of people believe in a God but I doubt there are many people who have faith in something that has so little proof to suport the idea.

Jason

 

[RJDiogenes]

Ok.

Thank you.

Thank you, Scout. You summed up my chain of logic perfectly.

No problem with that chain of logic at all, just the way it was expressed.

 

[Chaos Descending]

^^^ You're welcome, and point taken.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

According to Hawkings, even if the universe existed in some form prior to TBB (which is likely because matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed) it hardly is useful for us to talk about it because we have no basis from which to begin. In fact we can't really study much of anything before the plank-time (about, say, 0.000043 seconds after TBB)

 

[John Picard]

Blessed are the conservative in Bible translation

A new online project seeks to purge liberal views from the scriptures

CHARLESTON, West Virginia - The Gospel of Luke records that, as he was dying on the cross, Jesus showed his boundless mercy by praying for his killers this way: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."Not so fast, say contributors to the Conservative Bible Project.
The project, an online effort to create a Bible suitable for contemporary conservative sensibilities, claims Jesus' quote is a disputed addition abetted by liberal biblical scholars, even if it appears in some form in almost every translation of the Bible.


The project's authors argue that contemporary scholars have inserted liberal views and ahistorical passages into the Bible, turning Jesus into little more than a well-meaning social worker with a store of watered-down platitudes.
"Professors are the most liberal group of people in the world, and it's professors who are doing the popular modern translations of the Bible," said Andy Schlafly, founder of Conservapedia.com, the project's online home.

Ancient debate
Jones, the professor, said while some early Greek manuscripts omit Jesus' words, others include them.
"There are so many factors to consider when looking at that, but here it gets boiled down to 'liberals put it in,'" he said. "You've got people who are doing this who have probably never looked at an actual ancient manuscript."
In some ways, the Conservative Bible Project reflects an ancient debate over Scripture. The Bible as it's known today more or less took final shape in the 4th century after hundreds of years of debate over which books were canonical.
The debate flared up again during the Protestant Reformation, when Martin Luther fruitlessly yearned to cut the Book of James because of its fairly explicit contradiction of his belief that salvation could be attained by faith alone."People have always done this with the Bible," said Philip Jenkins, a professor of history and religious studies at Pennsylvania State University. "Virtually everyone in a mainstream Protestant or Roman Catholic church in the United States is reading a doctored version of the Bible."
Jenkins is referring to the Revised Common Lectionary, a selection of biblical texts read in worship services that amounts to about a third of the full text.

In other words, the Christian bible is a badly translated document that is a hodge-podge of ancient text compiled by mankind.

 

[Strider]

I absolutely refuse to believe that the Conservative Bible Project is anything more than a concious parody. I can't even imagine the alternative, that someone would actually believe that.

 

[Rusty phaser]

I absolutely refuse to believe that the Conservative Bible Project is anything more than a concious parody. I can't even imagine the alternative, that someone would actually believe that.

The fundamentalists will probably rationalize it with what they've already used before.... the holy ghost is involved. As long as it suits their political beliefs they might just accept it. Luckily most christians arent fundamentalists.

 

[John Picard]

I absolutely refuse to believe that the Conservative Bible Project is anything more than a conscious parody. I can't even imagine the alternative, that someone would actually believe that.

Are you not aware of the "Politically Correct" Bible that came out about 14 years ago?

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/pcbible.html

Controversial “politically correct” version of the Bible published in Germany

 

[apenpaap]

The Conservatice Bible Project is so silly, that apparently even the Rapture Ready crowd has apparently denounced it. How deep can you fall?

 

[I'm Kirk]

I read that stimuli applied to the limbic system in the brain can induce effects that are similar to religious ecstasy. One of the proposed causes of near-death experiences is that this region of the brain becomes starved of oxygen. I'm neither a brain surgeon nor a mystic, though.

But those are man-made induced..just like the guy said he can create the same image that is on the shroud of Turin..mankind tries to duplicate it all..but there is one thing Mankind will not duplicate, the Rapture....

 

[I'm Kirk]

Believing in Jesus is very easy, seeing He was a fact of history. He is talked about in many ancient writings other than the holy scriptures...anyone hear of Josephus? He wrote of Jesus and His life and he wasn't even converted..he was a Jewish historian and he wrote of Jesus' life and crucifixion, etc....

And about the manuscripts of the bible. Only the King James Version comes from the most reliable manuscripts ever found..for some reason the NIV and the other versions ALL come from a totally different set of manuscripts that the catholics have in their posession..and those manuscripts in many instances have been proven to be some of the most unreliable that exists. It is a matter of history that many civilizations circulated their own versions of writings to discredit the true ones, the Apostle Paul even wrote about that..

 

[I'm Kirk]

I would certainly hope that a Christian is concerned about what the bible says. The bible is the roadmap, it is the book for a Christian to live by. The bible is God's holy word. Yes penned by men BUT men under the leading and inspiration of the Holy Spirit (the third person of the trinity).

I'm a born again Christian and you doggone right I'm concerned what my Holy Father in Heaven says in His holy word.

Wow, never heard of that!

Never heard of the bible or scripture being inspired by the Holy Spirit? It is in 2 Timothy 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:21 (speaking of prophecy)

 

[Michael Chris]

And about the manuscripts of the bible. Only the King James Version comes from the most reliable manuscripts ever found..for some reason the NIV and the other versions ALL come from a totally different set of manuscripts that the catholics have in their posession..and those manuscripts in many instances have been proven to be some of the most unreliable that exists. It is a matter of history that many civilizations circulated their own versions of writings to discredit the true ones, the Apostle Paul even wrote about that..

Nah, not even close. Sorry.

 

[6of9]

Personally, I think God would be a fair judge of the circumstances.

If the Man/Woman in question were selfish in life, *but* they figured out the errors of their ways (and God's a pretty good judge of figuring out when this is true, as he knew us in the womb, right?) Then I'm sure He would look at the totality of the situation and sentence a person according to the soul's willingness to turn from their sin and spread hope in the world on their second chance.

If a Man or Woman finally figured out the error of their ways and ~sacrificed themselves~ for a noble cause, in defense of someone smaller/weaker than themselves as a self-penance, I think God would be more willing to ignore the soul's suicide and try to see that the soul didn't know ~how~ to right their wrongs, find peace for themselves & all Humankind, and straighten themselves out and do the right thing for those he/she loved in life.

Know what I'm saying? God is all about love & helping *ALL* peoples of the world find peace and closure. He's not the vindictive demon-king some make Him out to be.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

God is created by man in man's own image.

To state that the opposite is true is to make a claim that requres justification

 

[Amaris]

God is created by man in man's own image.

To state that the opposite is true is to make a claim that requres justification

In general, I have found that the characteristics of God change based on the culture in which he is steeped, which is why the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are two totally different entities, and that the God concept forever changes as we progress forward. In another couple hundred years, the concept of hell will have been relegated to those silly backward folks of darker times.

J.

 

[iguana_tonante]

But those are man-made induced..just like the guy said he can create the same image that is on the shroud of Turin..mankind tries to duplicate it all..but there is one thing Mankind will not duplicate, the Rapture....

Oh my, you are one of them, are you?

Believing in Jesus is very easy, seeing He was a fact of history. He is talked about in many ancient writings other than the holy scriptures...anyone hear of Josephus? He wrote of Jesus and His life and he wasn't even converted..he was a Jewish historian and he wrote of Jesus' life and crucifixion, etc....

Not so easy, champ.

And about the manuscripts of the bible. Only the King James Version comes from the most reliable manuscripts ever found..for some reason the NIV and the other versions ALL come from a totally different set of manuscripts that the catholics have in their posession..and those manuscripts in many instances have been proven to be some of the most unreliable that exists. It is a matter of history that many civilizations circulated their own versions of writings to discredit the true ones, the Apostle Paul even wrote about that..

Wow, never heard of that!

Never heard of the bible or scripture being inspired by the Holy Spirit? It is in 2 Timothy 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:21 (speaking of prophecy)

Swoosh.

That was the sound of sarcasm. Flying right above your head.

Anyway. Do you really think that something written in the Bible could give insight to the authenticity of the Bible?