Why would God send someone to hell over suicide?

[Amaris]

You seem pretty resolute, J. I would have to say though that if you are now an atheist you were never touched by Christ in the first place. Would you agree? If so, what made you believe in Him before?

I would disagree, just as I do when someone pulls the "not a true Christian in the first place" card.

J.

 

[StarryEyed]

How can it be a forgery? He was an actual person and the events he writes about were also written about by others in other cultures..you mean you believe everything you google? Surely not..

Josephus was an actual person but his mention of Jesus was added by forgers. Nobody should take my word for it - not only am I not a not a scholar; history isn't even much of an interest of mine as a layman. But I can read.

No, I don't believe everything I find through Google but I do put a lot of stock in people who actually are expert in their fields. Scholars almost universally agree that the Josephus mention of Jesus is not only a forgery but a ridiculously transparent one.

Let's cut the crap. If you want to sell anyone on the historicity of Jesus, the most sure way to destroy your credibility is to cite Josephus. Anyone even casually familiar with it knows that it is bogus. The facts are easily available for anyone to find. Citing Josephus is an obvious sign that you either don't know what you are talking about or worse still, are being deliberately deceptive.

There are Christians who will say "a little white lie" because as long as they can get someone to look into it, the ends justify the means. I have witnessed this firsthand. Not saying I'm Kirk is doing so, just saying they do exist and it is a frequent practice.

J.

Yeah, the Section 31 thing.

We need a Sloan smiley.

I really hate that kind of thing and I'll call out people on either side who engage in it. It's just pathetic. It's pathetic when Christians do it because of all the Biblical condemnations of telling lies. It's pathetic when atheists do it because it's antithetical to the atheistic creed of being accurate with the facts.

Not to say that I'm Kirk is being deliberately deceptive but one sure sign that you are on the wrong side is that you feel you need to resort to lies to defend your position.

 

[Amaris]

Yeah, the Section 31 thing.

We need a Sloan smiley.

I really hate that kind of thing and I'll call out people on either side who engage in it. It's just pathetic. It's pathetic when Christians do it because of all the Biblical condemnations of telling lies. It's pathetic when atheists do it because it's antithetical to the atheistic creed of being accurate with the facts.

Not to say that I'm Kirk is being deliberately deceptive but one sure sign that you are on the wrong side is that you feel you need to resort to lies to defend your position.

I would hope at this point that Kirk doesn't think we're pegging him as some kind of liar.

J.

 

[StarryEyed]

Yeah, the Section 31 thing.

We need a Sloan smiley.

I really hate that kind of thing and I'll call out people on either side who engage in it. It's just pathetic. It's pathetic when Christians do it because of all the Biblical condemnations of telling lies. It's pathetic when atheists do it because it's antithetical to the atheistic creed of being accurate with the facts.

Not to say that I'm Kirk is being deliberately deceptive but one sure sign that you are on the wrong side is that you feel you need to resort to lies to defend your position.

I would hope at this point that Kirk doesn't think we're pegging him as some kind of liar.

J.

We shouldn't, really. People can honestly believe something false because they were deceived themselves.

Perhaps you are referring to the implication that this poster is the same as another infamous poster? I won't go there.

 

[Chaos Descending]

You seem pretty resolute, J. I would have to say though that if you are now an atheist you were never touched by Christ in the first place. Would you agree? If so, what made you believe in Him before?

I would disagree, just as I do when someone pulls the "not a true Christian in the first place" card.

J.

How can you possibly disagree? Do you think that you were actually "touched" by someone that you now think does not exist?

 

[StarryEyed]

You seem pretty resolute, J. I would have to say though that if you are now an atheist you were never touched by Christ in the first place. Would you agree? If so, what made you believe in Him before?

I would disagree, just as I do when someone pulls the "not a true Christian in the first place" card.

J.

How can you possibly disagree? Do you think that you were actually "touched" by someone that you now think does not exist?

Is that the measure of a TRUE Christian? What if someone were to honestly believe at one point that they were so touched?

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

You seem pretty resolute, J. I would have to say though that if you are now an atheist you were never touched by Christ in the first place. Would you agree? If so, what made you believe in Him before?

I would disagree, just as I do when someone pulls the "not a true Christian in the first place" card.

J.

How can you believe in Santa Claus and not be a true Christian?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

One common question people like me get asked is: What if I am wrong?

This guy has the best answer, similar to my own thoughts on the matter:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iClejS8vWjo&feature=related[/yt]

 

[Gepard]

^I didn't know Samuel Anders was a YouTube poster.

 

[Amaris]

We shouldn't, really. People can honestly believe something false because they were deceived themselves.

Perhaps you are referring to the implication that this poster is the same as another infamous poster? I won't go there.

No, no implication of any kind. Just trying to avoid wrong perception.

How can you possibly disagree? Do you think that you were actually "touched" by someone that you now think does not exist?

Which pills in your medicine cabinet are placebos?
Does it change the fact that either way you tend to feel better after taking them?

How can you believe in Santa Claus and not be a true Christian?

I believe in the idea of Santa Claus, the spirit and the meaning of the personhood.

J.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Let me ask you guys something...honest answers, please.

When you guys have these arguments, and I am asking both the Christians and the non-Christians here, what are your motivations for getting involved? Are you doing it to share an opinion or in hopes of destroying the other person's beliefs? Is it love or contempt that motivates you guys?

 

[Amaris]

Let me ask you guys something...honest answers, please.

When you guys have these arguments, and I am asking both the Christians and the non-Christians here, what are your motivations for getting involved? Are you doing it to share an opinion or to in hopes of destroying the other person's beliefs? Is it love or contempt that motivates you guys?

I just want to keep facts straight, clear misconceptions and make sure people realize we're all coming at this from a human perspective. I have no concern whether people think I'm right or not, or that they must believe or think like I do.

J.

 

[Gepard]

When you guys have these arguments, and I am asking both the Christians and the non-Christians here, what are your motivations for getting involved? Are you doing it to share an opinion or to in hopes of destroying the other person's beliefs? Is it love or contempt that motivates you guys?

I post whenever I think I can make a silly crack about something.

As far as I'm concerned, since my atheism contains no tenants beyond "I don't believe in this," there's nothing worth arguing. Now to counteract that moment of seriousness, zpiiy zippy boing boing noodle.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Noodle?!

Somebody must be hungry...

 

[Amaris]

Noodle?!

Somebody must be hungry...

I don't know, I just find it atrocious that he would be so profane in front of the ladies.

J.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't know, I just find it atrocious that he would be so profane in front of the ladies.

BELGIUM!!!!

A To have faith you have to have no doubt at all in what you beleive.

No, not really. Everyone has doubts. We're only human, after all - nobody's perfect. We all have moments where our beliefs waver. Anyone who says they *never* doubt, is a liar. It's how you deal with your doubts that is the important thing.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

A To have faith you have to have no doubt at all in what you beleive.

No, not really. Everyone has doubts. We're only human, after all - nobody's perfect. We all have moments where our beliefs waver. Anyone who says they *never* doubt, is a liar. It's how you deal with your doubts that is the important thing.

Indeed...doubts are quite natural. There's even an account right in the NT where someone says, "I believe--help me with my unbelief." Sounds contradictory until you realize that's the human experience right there. And this guy was not condemned in the slightest, because he was being totally honest.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Let me ask you guys something...honest answers, please.

When you guys have these arguments, and I am asking both the Christians and the non-Christians here, what are your motivations for getting involved? Are you doing it to share an opinion or to in hopes of destroying the other person's beliefs? Is it love or contempt that motivates you guys?

Because, in part, of people like this, who are making decisions based on claims that cannot be demonstrated. Much of our country is populated by Chrsitans who can't keep their beliefs to themselves, and who smply expect to affect public education and political power on the basis of bald assertions without being able to truly justify why they believe what the believe. Atheists are now feeling a stigma in society that is just awful, even a former president doesn't consider them to be citizens.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Much of our country is populated by Christians who can't keep their beliefs to themselves

Why should we? We've got as much right to talk about our beliefs as you do about yours.

Indeed...doubts are quite natural. There's even an account right in the NT where someone says, "I believe--help me with my unbelief."

Too right. For example, I once doubted - strange as it may seem - the existence of the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry. I got over it.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Which pills in your medicine cabinet are placebos?

None.

Does it change the fact that either way you tend to feel better after taking them?

I don't tend to feel better after taking placebos, and typically, neither does anyone else.

That's why they use placebos in the control group for drug trials.