Why was the Section 31 Photon Torpedo so much larger than standard?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

https://imgur.com/wm79MVt

It also seems to be geometrically shaped for stealth and the tip seems to have some sort of penetrating ability, or were the shields down the moment it implanted itself into the Saucer of the Enterprise?

 

[Timo]

Might be S31 values larger Generic Unpiloted Projectiles than the rest of Starfleet because it wants to fly more diverse payloads. In the 24th century, one can pack all sorts of sensors and even people into the small standard casing; in the 23rd, perhaps not yet.

That we see a drop launch is remarkable in itself - until now, tube launches have been de rigeur, but here the S31 torp follows in the exhaust-steps of the probe dropped from the shuttlecraft belly into the time vortex... The CGI action looks cool, but one might further postulate in-universe that these projectiles are actually independent spacecraft intended to perform flyback missions perhaps even more often than fire-and-forget sorties.

"Faceted hulls for stealth" is nice handwaving and creates a uniform look for S31, even though we don't know how faceting would work in the Trek environment. Although I'd like to speculate that stealth in DSC is via projecting of false images (much as seen in "Saints of Imperfection" and perhas already hinted at in "Point of Light"), and that the projection is easiest to achieve using flat projecting surfaces.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The Photon Torpedo Casing they used for the funeral on the Discovery was standard sized, it's just the S31 that is extra long since it is taller than 1 deck high and still manages to stick out of the hull of the Enterprise by a noticeable amount.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

We actually never saw photon torpedo casings during TOS. Guess depending on the type, some were larger at that time than the ones we know from the movies or later.

 

[Kemaiku]

This thing is bigger than any standard torpedo, maybe 2-3 times the regular size. That and the fact it can move, aim and fire itself independently makes it look more like a superweapon designed for covert use.

You could drop several, probably even warp away, have them activate and fire only when the target arrives. And the shields are up during the impact, you can see the energy effect of the torpedo going through them as well.

 

[Timo]

The thing is, "standard" torps in ENT and TNG were capable of independent movement, too. They sort of swam out of the tubes at snail's pace and then managed to hit targets thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of kilometers away in seconds. Likewise, probes swam out and then studied distant targets.

But the "fire, forget and let lurk" mode of deployment would be great for both weapons (which S31 probably would rarely need) and spying gear.

We don't know what torps were like in TOS, that much is true. We just know they were of this "standard" type in the bracketing 22nd and 24th centuries. But DSC already showed a nonstandard torp when we got a closeup of the one that chased Spock's/Georgiou's shuttle and knocked it out of action - it had a head much like that of the Karemma torp. (Perhaps some standard torps shed their skin after launch to reveal a seeker head?) No idea of the size of that thing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kemaiku]

The thing is, "standard" torps in ENT and TNG were capable of independent movement, too. They sort of swam out of the tubes at snail's pace and then managed to hit targets thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of kilometers away in seconds. Likewise, probes swam out and then studied distant targets.

True, these ones seem to be designed for entirely that kind of use though. A stealthier deployment, no bright plasma shroud, changes course to ram it's target and goes right through the shields. Then sets up multiple detonation triggers.

Actually, given how it acted when it hit the Enterprise, I wouldn't be surprised if 31 was trying to make these to cripple capital ships for capture rather than destroying them unless necessary.

Harpoon torpedoes?

 

[Timo]

Not bad. From the trailers, I sorta suspected these might even be breaching pods, and the means by which the Leland zombie manages to get aboard the Discovery (and perhaps another of Control's puppets attempts the same with the Enterprise). Didn't turn out to be that, but a passenger might well be an optional payload on a projectile that big.

In contrast, the warhead that actually went off was rather unimpressive. It totally failed to penetrate a simple door with a window in it at a range of two meters or so! Not exactly a ship-killer, that one. Why it managed to hurt the other walls of that room is quite a mystery, considering those walls and their emergency bulkheads were said to be working just as supposed, while the one that actually survived was said to be malfunctioning. (Did the clever Number One activate scuttling charges in the bow parts of the saucer just before the explosion and blow up half her own ship to channel the explosion into empty space?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kemaiku]

Maybe they are large multi-purpose carrying bodies, we know the Kelvin ones (which are barely half the size) can do that easily enough. Getting through the shields and hull could also allow biological agents to be pumped into a large area before anti-breaching measures have time to compensate. Or a mechanism that drills further into the ship, or land a massive router inside the ships computer grid, a transporter pattern enhancer to beam a landing party through the shields etc

Yeah the damage to the Enterprise is odd, but they did spend 15 minutes or more preparing for the blast, the little robots even carving channels in the hull plates to shape the explosion outward. If two or three of these hit targetted areas, I still think they could selectively destroy key systems to neutralise a ship rather than take it out.

If say, the Romulans, thought putting critical data into a larger ship would make it safer, 2-3 of these could stop a Warbird and knock out most of the crew to let 31 get onboard and take what they need. Maybe the blast pattern can't be positively identified as Starfleet.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

So based on my visual estimation of the size of the S31 Torpedo, my guesstimate based on the on-screen footage relative to the Admiral's limbs lengths, here's what I think the size of the S31 Torpedo to be.

Standard Torpedo Casing: L: _2.1m; W: 0.76m; H: 0.45m.
Enlarged Torpedo Casing: L: 12.9m; W: 1.50m; H: 1.00m.


Of course the Enlarged Torpedo Casing is tapered gradually using simple geometric facets like the F-117 NightHawk, that should help with making signal detection difficult until it gets close or you happened to be at the perfect angle to detect it (unlikely), which by the time you detect it, it'll be too late (Modern Stealth Design Principles).[/FONT]

 

[Timo]

...More like 1980s Stealth Design Principles - today, facets are the one thing the designers avoid like plague. That is, if the idea is to hide the target from sonar-type signal pings. The sensors to be defeated in a Trek space battle might be fundamentally different, as typically a target is exposed by its emissions of varying sorts, thus presumably by passive sensors (even if the FTL bit there may call for some sort of activeness at some stage).

One wonders if the thing identified as a torpedo was known to our regular-Starfleet heroes beforehand. It might be a S31 device of unknown design and function, only here utilized as a torpedo by Control, and possibly only applicable as such after modifications. (Then again, the heroes think they know how to defuse the thing. Then again again, they are wrong.)

Similarly, the hundreds of drones might be something known to Starfleet even if our heroes don't know in advance that they are part of the S31 cruiser's arsenal; something only known to S31; or something built or converted by Control, taking Tyler and Georgiou by surprise as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It said PhotoTorp mk.___ on the side and the Enterprise staff already had the schematics for it when they tried to defuse it. It's not a unknown / new / secret design.

 

[Timo]

Ah, yes. In the final scene involving the torp, we get a side view, with "TORP MARK V" visible on the side. So it is a torpedo by design, unless Control decided to stencil additional markings on it.

As for schematics, Pike asks for them. We never get the impression he would have gotten what he asked for. And in asking, he made it clear he didn't recognize the weapon, nor did anybody on the bridge volunteer such knowledge. So, probably a proprietary S31 weapon.

Incidentally, what kind of ship is it that fires the torp? There seem to be at least three distinct types of S31 ship: the one seen in many episodes, with the two clickety-clack nacelles, then the four-naceller seen in the viewscreen schematic and crushed by the cleave ship, and then the drone-launching large two-naceller with straight pylons and a roll bar. But the missile is launched from a ship that appears to have a hollow bow, that is, with a large trapezoid hole going all the way through the bow. Is this one of the above three types or not?

Might be the drone-launching Reliant lookalike, since the hull sides seem to feature pits left by launched drones. Or did more than one ship launch drones? Verifying the presence of the bow hole in the drone-launching scene is not all that clear-cut: the shadows on the facets might suggest it, but perhaps not.

Timo Saloniemi