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Why was the Constitution refit never seen in TNG or thereafter/

The problem is that there's zero information about what qualities a starship has that makes it be classified as a light cruiser, heavy cruiser, medium cruiser, frigate, (insert naval term here), etc. The Constitution class, the Ambassador class, and the Curiosity class were all referred to as heavy cruisers, but there's no indication as to why this is so, or why, say, the Galaxy class is not classified as a heavy cruiser.

The terms ought to be comparable to current naval terms. I mean, a heavy cruiser is a heavy cruiser and a frigate is a frigate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_cruiser
A light cruiser is a type of small- or medium-sized warship. The term is a shortening of the phrase "light armored cruiser", describing a small ship that carried armor in the same way as an armored cruiser: a protective belt and deck. Prior to this smaller cruisers had been of the protected cruiser model, possessing armored decks only. While lighter and smaller than other contemporary ships they were still true cruisers, retaining the extended radius of action and self-sufficiency to act independently across the world. Through their history they served in a variety of roles, primarily as convoy escorts and destroyer command ships, but also as scouts and fleet support vessels for battle fleets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_cruiser
The heavy cruiser was a type of cruiser, a naval warship designed for long range and high speed, armed generally with naval guns of roughly 203 mm (8 inches) in caliber, whose design parameters were dictated by the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 and the London Naval Treaty of 1930. The heavy cruiser is part of a lineage of ship design from 1915 through the early 1950s, although the term "heavy cruiser" only came into formal use in 1930. The heavy cruiser's immediate precursors were the light cruiser designs of the 1900s and 1910s, rather than the armoured cruisers of the years before 1905. When the armoured cruiser was supplanted by the battlecruiser, an intermediate ship type between this and the light cruiser was found to be needed—one larger and more powerful than the light cruisers of a potential enemy but not as large and expensive as the battlecruiser so as to be built in sufficient numbers to protect merchant ships and serve in a number of combat theaters.

So, heavy cruiser and light cruisers are both cruisers. The heavy and light refers to the amount of armor vs. speed.

Frigate vs. Destoryer
“Frigates are thus usually used as escort vessels to protect sea lines of communication or as an auxiliary component of a strike group whereas destroyers are generally integrated into carrier battle groups as the air defence component or utilised to provide territorial air and missile defence.”
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/frigate-vs-destroyer-difference/

Realistically in today's navy a destroyer would fill the roles we see the Enterprise (especially in TOS) perform.
 
Putting it in Star Trek terms... If the Excelsior Class became the new standard "heavy" cruiser for Starfleet with maybe stronger or heavier shielding and perhaps a little more punch, then the old Constitution Class could have been re-designated "light" cruiser simply because technology had marched on.

A heavy cruiser from the WWI era might no longer match strength and armor with that of a heavy cruiser of the 21st century.
 
Also, as many here no doubt very well know already, "heavy cruiser" and "light cruiser" in particular don't really mean what one might expect them to mean. Instead, they are poster children of the fundamental arbitrariness of naval designations, and perhaps a good argument for extending such arbitrariness to Starfleet as well.

Heavy cruisers don't weigh more than light ones. They just happen to have guns bigger than 6.1 inches in barrel diameter. In quite a few cases, the two are in fact the same ship, only with interchangeable gun turrets.

The designations only ever existed for two brief decades leading to and covering WWII, and only made any sense during the first of those two. They are free for creative reusing nowadays, and probably in the 2360s as well. Likewise, words like "dreadnought" or "frigate" no doubt will change meaning; the latter has done so half a dozen times already.

I'm not quite sure why the scriptwriters for PIC felt the need to use such obscure naval nomenclature for the ibn Majid. The only time these terms were ever used in modern Trek was the first season of TNG (light cruiser Drake, frigates Renegade & Thomas Paine, and heavy cruiser Horatio.) These terms were then abandoned. Perhaps one of the writers was a navy guy?

No contest. But here again reality can come to our rescue: ships out there on the seas indeed tend to be scale models of each other, only porthole rows helping distinguish scale, and even then only in the superstructure which has less excuse for unevenly spaced decks than the hull proper. Anything from smokestacks to cranes to lifeboats can be arbitrarily scaled, and is.

Hulls in particular enjoy scaling up and down, within limits, because a hydrodynamical solution found for one shape often scales up and down, within limits. Perhaps ships intended to operate within atmospheres, with blatant wings, are much the same?

When Miarecki built the BoBW kitbashes, he intentionally gave the ships larger bridge domes, larger escape pod hatches and larger windows in relation to the hull to suggest a smaller-scaled ship. Other than the different pod thingy at the end of the Excelsior's secondary hull with definite window rows, I didn't see much else to imply a size change from a 467 meter ship to, say, 700 meters, or vice-versa. (I'm of the school where the official 467 meter size is woefully inaccurate.)

Indeed, the rows of lights on top of the Oberth saucer are so closely spaced that the ship might be kilometers long if two rows represented two adjacent decks!

Nothing wrong with ships kilometers long. All the more reason for Starfleet to put a four-pipper in charge, and it's consistent that BoPs eat those for breakfast... But not my personal favorite among possible scalings.

I wouldn't go that far, but I've seen compelling evidence that the ship is probably about as large as the Constitution class.
 
The terms ought to be comparable to current naval terms. I mean, a heavy cruiser is a heavy cruiser and a frigate is a frigate.

Uh, no. There is no heavy cruiser any longer - the concept was a brief-lived one in the 1920s through 40s, and ceased to exist before the last examples of the type did. And "frigate" has been half a dozen things, many not even listed in the wiki article, and continues to mutate today.

So, heavy cruiser and light cruisers are both cruisers. The heavy and light refers to the amount of armor vs. speed.

No, they refer exclusively to gun caliber. Different nations just built differently around those definitions to best violate the treaty making the definitions.

“Frigates are thus usually used as escort vessels to protect sea lines of communication or as an auxiliary component of a strike group whereas destroyers are generally integrated into carrier battle groups as the air defence component or utilised to provide territorial air and missile defence.”

Or then vice versa. The words really mean squat nowadays, in terms of differentiating, and different folks call the same ship by different designations often enough.

Realistically in today's navy a destroyer would fill the roles we see the Enterprise (especially in TOS) perform.

How so? A destroyer today basically never operates solo. A frigate might, since frigates are the de facto capital ships of smaller navies that don't engage in fleet operations to begin with.

But Kirk is not from today. He might be from the RN of Horatio Hornblower, with a very workable definition of "frigate" (essentially the same as "cruiser" before those became bogged down first in the heavy/light nonsense pre-WWII, and then in the "cruiser gap" nonsense of the 1970s).

Timo Saloniemi
 
In-universe, we can always rationalize. Perhaps the -A was a ship already refitted to TMP specs and found surplus to requirement or hopelessly outdated for her day? Once given over to Kirk as a symbolic gesture, she finally broke down, much as described by Scotty, and requiring actual repairs with modern hardware: no sense in digging out outdated 2270s consoles when there were modern ones in stock.

The turbolift stations never made sense vis-á-vis the exterior. Even in TMP, we'd do best to assume that the bridge was actually lower down than Probert thought, at a depth where the turbolift stations could comfortably be mounted anywhere on the rim of the facility. That way, the ride from the upper docking port to the bridge also makes sense: the port is one deck higher than the bridge and for that reason requires the lift. We could then both forget about the idiotic idea of the lift merely rotating to let Spock through, and accept that since the ride takes a finite amount of time, Chekov could precede Spock to the bridge via competing lift or staircase or whatever.

Moving from the upholstered ST5 look to the bare ST6 one is a sensible one IMHO: Starfleet no longer cares about making the old and high-maintenance ship look respectable, and rips out the vanity covers and carpeting to facilitate practical ops and repairs.

Timo Saloniemi

Due to the red padding at the back of the bridge in Star Trek 6, I actually fell that the bridge in that move looks more like a "comfortable step towards TNG" then the version from Star Trek 5 where the padding less noticeable. Despite the turbolift locations, and since some feel that it might be tough to fit them anyway, don't have a problem thinking that the bridge in ST5 and ST6 s the same module that has been modified in the meanwhile. It is partially taken apart at the start of ST5 anyway.

The problem is that there's zero information about what qualities a starship has that makes it be classified as a light cruiser, heavy cruiser, medium cruiser, frigate, (insert naval term here), etc. The Constitution class, the Ambassador class, and the Curiosity class were all referred to as heavy cruisers, but there's no indication as to why this is so, or why, say, the Galaxy class is not classified as a heavy cruiser.

Although as written material it might not be fully canon, I think the solution to your problem is the explanation given in the TNG tech manual: the Galaxy is a big, comfortable ship with families moreso than others in the past, thus making it an "Explorer," as opposed to a cruiser.

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

I compared scales given near the bottom of the page in an article at Ex Astris Scientia. Then I was trying to build scale models that made the bridge modules (and to a lesser degree the saucers) of the of the two ships the same size and found that it would be about the same size as the movie Enterprise at that point.

With nacelles that closely resemble the Excelsior prototypes, and no neck to the pod, I think the somewhat larger size I found supports the idea the ship is a newer design, post TMP, and that the pod is uninhabited and full of mission specific equipment, not a warp core. At this size a small crew could be in the saucer only, and the little doors on the model that look like shuttle bays would at least accommodate small travel pods or something like that.

“Frigates are thus usually used as escort vessels to protect sea lines of communication or as an auxiliary component of a strike group whereas destroyers are generally integrated into carrier battle groups as the air defence component or utilised to provide territorial air and missile defence.”

Actually, with the communications officer having a more prominent role than on most other shows, the Enterprise could have been doing some kind of communication work during TOS. I have been thinking about making a thread on this if I have not already, but it is interesting to me how the different bridge layouts might reflect different roles for the ship. In TOS the communcations officer is right behind the captain, then in TMP sciences is behind the captain, and then on other shows it is the weapons station or just a background system. Maybe this in some way indicates the role of the ship?

Putting it in Star Trek terms... If the Excelsior Class became the new standard "heavy" cruiser for Starfleet with maybe stronger or heavier shielding and perhaps a little more punch, then the old Constitution Class could have been re-designated "light" cruiser simply because technology had marched on.

That is similar to what I was thinking could have happened, but I'm not sure if I like the idea or not.

How so? A destroyer today basically never operates solo. A frigate might, since frigates are the de facto capital ships of smaller navies that don't engage in fleet operations to begin with.

But Kirk is not from today. He might be from the RN of Horatio Hornblower, with a very workable definition of "frigate" (essentially the same as "cruiser" before those became bogged down first in the heavy/light nonsense pre-WWII, and then in the "cruiser gap" nonsense of the 1970s).

Would I be throwing a total monkey wrench into this conversation if I pointed out that, as I understand it, destroyers in the US navy are now of a size that they pretty much can do the roles of escorts, frigates, cruisers, or any other class that is not a carrier? ;)
 
If anything, the real slap in the face was when the Enterprise D was mercilessly owned by a rundown Klingon BoP in Generations. Curiously, you're not taking issue with that.

I didn't like Enterprise-D being destroyed. 'Generations' is such a weak movie I haven't payed attention to it in a long time and most likely it will stay that way.
Destroying Enterprise-D was something that took away a part of the shows identity. That was the place where all episodes took place, more or less. Suddenly someone wanted a movie ship? Not having "the D" in the movies made them something so different it was just weird. TNG movies didn't feel TNG to me. There were TNG characters but that's it.
 
I didn't like Enterprise-D being destroyed. 'Generations' is such a weak movie I haven't payed attention to it in a long time and most likely it will stay that way.
Destroying Enterprise-D was something that took away a part of the shows identity. That was the place where all episodes took place, more or less. Suddenly someone wanted a movie ship? Not having "the D" in the movies made them something so different it was just weird. TNG movies didn't feel TNG to me. There were TNG characters but that's it.
'Kay. My point is that's the real slap in the face, taking what was supposed to be Starfleet's best and most advanced ship and having it taken down by what was essentially a lucky shot by a weaker foe. At least when DS9 showed the Odyssey get destroyed they were acknowledging it's supposed to be Starfleet's mightiest, and showing how mighty the Dominion were in comparison by having them take down Starfleet's finest.

It's basically the Worf Effect.
 
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