Why Voyager was a Disappointment

[Borough 31]

IMHO, of course. I'm not trying to start anything.

Here's my main reasons:

1. They made it a cartoon. Almost no continuity at all, and way too many episodes had a reset button. If they had given it DS9's darkness and TNG's sense of exploration, it would have been a grand spectacle. IMHO, damn near every episode should have had Year Of Hell's gravity.

2. Space lizards. Seriously, Braga? There's a point where you have to ask yourself if you're burned out, dude. When I watched this again recently, I was struck by the fact that apparently no one had the guts to tell the producers that the idea sucked. Yes, the makeup was good, I will admit.

3. Q. 'Nuff said.

4. The Neutering of The Borg. As with Q, they took an icon of Star Trek and turned it into a running gag. The Borg were a force to be reckoned with in TNG. In Voyager, the Borg is run by a single incompetent individual. First Contact was a good movie, but I don't think they had to make that change to the borg to make it work. And Voyager took that concept and make it a lot worse. (Although, seeing the Queen trying to seduce Data was pretty awful)

5. The finale. Wow, what a cop-out. Have our cake and eat it too, indeed. That Janeway was willing to wipe out all of those years of history (more to the point: people's lives) says a lot about her character. Why bother to save Ocompa in the first place? Why not just leave the Delta quadrant when she had the chance? IMHO, the only worse finale in Sci Fi history was that of BSG 2.0. We got absolutely no closure.

6. Neelix. Just kidding. I actually enjoy Neelix. He is annoying, but no more so than Chakotey or Kim.

7. Seven of Buns. She saved the show, sure, but the cat suit was not necessary. I know there's a thread on this already so 'nuff said.

Now, I say all this as a lifetime fan of Star Trek, and of Voyager. I loved it when I was a teen. I'm 30 now, and I watched the series again a year or two ago. Naturally I had a different take on it this time.

Agree, disagree?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

People who don't like space lizards, in my experience.. you can't help them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Diana swallowed a hamster in one gulp.

Every man in America that night was disappointed with his wife's gag reflex.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It was a guinea pig.

 

[Guy Gardener]

More taste, less calories?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Much much bigger! Hamsters are small. A guinea pig is a meal.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VObQfWMgmIM[/yt]

 

[Guy Gardener]

Every Kentucky fried, I don't think this fastfood chain will catch off well.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

eh they eat them in south america. A nice plump piece of grass fed protein.

 

[Catarina]

Kind of for me. Sure was more enchanted by certain episodes younger but I as frustrated as heck more than enchanted. Now, I let that go because when I look at where TV has gone today I'm glad I bought the Voyager DVDs.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Memory Alpha lists 15 sentient reptile species appearing in Star Trek (I left out the TAS ones). Breaking it down to first appearance in a series:

TOS: 4
TNG: 1
VOY: 2
DS9: 5
ENT: 3

 

[Lance]

I'm not sure I'd call it a disappointment, because when VOYAGER was on it's game I thought it did some of the strongest material in the franchise.

Admittedly these moments were isolated, but they were there.

I think it was at least as strong as DS9, albeit maybe less consistent.

ENT is the one that disappointed me.....

They made it a cartoon. Almost no continuity at all, and way too many episodes had a reset button. If they had given it DS9's darkness and TNG's sense of exploration, it would have been a grand spectacle. IMHO, damn near every episode should have had Year Of Hell's gravity.

This is one of the great myths. Voyager had continuity. It wasn't "serialized" by any stretch of the imagination, but that shouldn't be mistaken for it lacking in continuity.

Q. 'Nuff said.

I can't disagree with this one. DeLancie is always fun, but frankly the character had nowhere to go after TNG ended, he worked perfectly as a foil for Picard and crew and he never quite managed to do that with Janeway (despite having very good screen chemistry with Mulgrew). Carrying him over to Voyager was arguably one of the biggest mistakes they made IMO. It devalued Q, and it devalued the Continumm as well.

The Neutering of The Borg. As with Q, they took an icon of Star Trek and turned it into a running gag. The Borg were a force to be reckoned with in TNG. In Voyager, the Borg is run by a single incompetent individual. First Contact was a good movie, but I don't think they had to make that change to the borg to make it work. And Voyager took that concept and make it a lot worse. (Although, seeing the Queen trying to seduce Data was pretty awful)

Again I can't really disagree. They were kind of inevitable, given the Delta Quadrant is their territory and all, but it's the age old problem of how far you can have a recurring enemy without them becoming a joke. If they keep being beaten by the heroes, then you just wonder why they're considered a threat at all; and, obversely, if they keep getting away at the end of the episode to return another day, you begin to wonder why the heroes are too spineless to finish them off. It's a classic catch-22 in drama writing.

The finale. Wow, what a cop-out. Have our cake and eat it too, indeed. That Janeway was willing to wipe out all of those years of history (more to the point: people's lives) says a lot about her character. Why bother to save Ocompa in the first place? Why not just leave the Delta quadrant when she had the chance? IMHO, the only worse finale in Sci Fi history was that of BSG 2.0. We got absolutely no closure.

Again I am forced to agree. I think what got me is that it all felt like a very shallow re-tread of the TNG finale.....

Seven of Buns. She saved the show, sure, but the cat suit was not necessary. I know there's a thread on this already so 'nuff said.

Seven's okay. I admit the cat-suit was too much, but I think Jeri Ryan rose above it. She's one of the unsung cast members I think, everybody mentions the cat-suit, in a very cynical way, but I think she utterly "proved them all wrong" by being such a fantastic actress.

Agree, disagree?

Mostly agree, as it turned out.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How worlds develop, are to assume that advanced Reptiles pop up millions of years before advanced mammals in class J or class K Worlds? This means that for every reptile species we see in space ships, it is unlikely that they will survive as a culture for millions of years until advanced mammals start getting smart enough to build digital wrist watches.

The reptiles going out into space figuring this out, seeing all the mammals, are going to anticipate two schools of thought.

1. Murder them before they murder us.

2. It's nice to know that our world will be looked after, after we are gone.

 

[Borough 31]

How worlds develop, are to assume that advanced Reptiles pop up millions of years before advanced mammals in class J or class K Worlds? This means that for every reptile species we see in space ships, it is unlikely that they will survive as a culture for millions of years until advanced mammals start getting smart enough to build digital wrist watches.

The reptiles going out into space figuring this out, seeing all the mammals, are going to anticipate two schools of thought.

1. Murder them before they murder us.

2. It's nice to know that our world will be looked after, after we are gone.

Haha, but that's a bit of a strawman. Earth is one planet, and despite the number of human-looking forehead aliens in Trek, there's no reason to treat the planet like some kind of template for all life.

At the height of dinosaur evolution, they were miles beyond the mammals. It's logical to assume that had they not been wiped out they would have reached sentience before us. The Troodons were a good candidate. They had flexible, grasping hands. Besides, some studies in bird intelligence suggest that a few may be self aware. The European magpie is one such example. Had the larger-brained dinosaurs continued to evolve, mammals probably would have remained mouse-sized.

It wouldn't have become a Planet of The Dinos type situation where we somehow managed to gain sentience and become enslaved by them. There simply would not have been enough biological niches available within which mammals could diversify and become more complex.

 

[Borough 31]

I'm not sure I'd call it a disappointment, because when VOYAGER was on it's game I thought it did some of the strongest material in the franchise.

Admittedly these moments were isolated, but they were there.

I think it was at least as strong as DS9, albeit maybe less consistent.

ENT is the one that disappointed me.....

They made it a cartoon. Almost no continuity at all, and way too many episodes had a reset button. If they had given it DS9's darkness and TNG's sense of exploration, it would have been a grand spectacle. IMHO, damn near every episode should have had Year Of Hell's gravity.

This is one of the great myths. Voyager had continuity. It wasn't "serialized" by any stretch of the imagination, but that shouldn't be mistaken for it lacking in continuity.

Q. 'Nuff said.

I can't disagree with this one. DeLancie is always fun, but frankly the character had nowhere to go after TNG ended, he worked perfectly as a foil for Picard and crew and he never quite managed to do that with Janeway (despite having very good screen chemistry with Mulgrew). Carrying him over to Voyager was arguably one of the biggest mistakes they made IMO. It devalued Q, and it devalued the Continumm as well.


Again I can't really disagree. They were kind of inevitable, given the Delta Quadrant is their territory and all, but it's the age old problem of how far you can have a recurring enemy without them becoming a joke. If they keep being beaten by the heroes, then you just wonder why they're considered a threat at all; and, obversely, if they keep getting away at the end of the episode to return another day, you begin to wonder why the heroes are too spineless to finish them off. It's a classic catch-22 in drama writing.


Again I am forced to agree. I think what got me is that it all felt like a very shallow re-tread of the TNG finale.....

Seven of Buns. She saved the show, sure, but the cat suit was not necessary. I know there's a thread on this already so 'nuff said.

Seven's okay. I admit the cat-suit was too much, but I think Jeri Ryan rose above it. She's one of the unsung cast members I think, everybody mentions the cat-suit, in a very cynical way, but I think she utterly "proved them all wrong" by being such a fantastic actress.

Agree, disagree?

Mostly agree, as it turned out.

Good points!

I didn't mind Seven either, per se. Her character was the most fleshed out of any of them. I just wish they hadn't resorted to the catsuit. It set a bad precedent for Enterprise—which sucked hard.

 

[Melakon]

4. The Neutering of The Borg.

I really think Voyager gets an unfair share of the blame here. I peg the weakening of the Borg as early as TNG: I, Borg and perhaps even before that, in only their second appearance with "The Best of Both Worlds". The writers couldn't figure out how to continue keeping them a threat, so Locutus was created to give them a mouthpiece. For me, that's when they started to disintegrate.

 

[dub]

I think it was at least as strong as DS9...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Locutus is Latin for Speak.

 

[Makarov]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think Voyager needed more continuity. TV Star Trek doesn't seem built for something like that. Granted I haven't watched DS9 yet. But unless they're willing to kill off characters and actually change things, I don't see how it could work. You just get the reset buttons hiding under the furniture like on BSG, and that annoys me more than just knowing its episodic and embracing that. Year of Hell wasn't even that good aside from the awesome villain.

I've always loved TNG and sort of liked Voyager. Now that I'm rewatching Voyager though I'm starting to like it as much as TNG, especially the early seasons. Some of my favorites are episodes that have nothing to do with the journey home like that one with Chakotay fighting in the jungle, or Tuvok stranded with some kids.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Disappointing for a ST series, maybe. Disappointing compared to 99% of tv and all but a small handful of tv scifi/fantasy shows ever broadcast? No. They tried something different: Gilligan's Island in the Delta Quadrant. The fans didn't go for it. They changed it to TNG Part 2 & added some T & A and rode out the rest of series as best they could. Its still thoroughly entertaining in its own right.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

You just kind of described the general complaints a lot of people have been making for the last 20 years.