Why the hate for Disco?

[Worf factor9]

I haven't gotten hat I wanted in a long time. I don't even order my own food any more.

Where did I go wrong? Where!?

Oh, right, Star Trek. Yup, reboots are an unpredictable thing.

I'm guessing that you caught it but just in case, I was engaging my extremely and sometimes overdone dry sense of humor.

No offense was intended.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm guessing that you caught it but just in case, I was engaging my extremely and sometimes overdone dry sense of humor.

No offense was intended.

It was a dry wit response back

 

[Lord Garth]

And then there is the remastered vs. original FX. They did a fair job, but they didn't stick very close to the original shots or models. At the same time, TOS itself used at least 4 completely different models for the Enterprise, none of which match when you look closely. So I didn't expect and exact duplicate of the model in the Smithsonian, restored to how it appeared in The Cage to be in Discovery, but what we got was about the opposite extreme - about as different as it could be with as many changes as could conceivably be made and still hint at the original design.

I never bought TOS-R. They made some changes that didn't match what the creators' intent was, which I think is what a remastering should do. Plus I think a lot of the CGI looks too cartoony, which was the deal-breaker for me.

I stick with regular, un-remastered TOS. I still have the DVDs.

 

[Vger23]

The bit I find really don't like and this isn't just about Discovery but Hollywood in general at the moment is how much do you change before it's better to start new.
If you don't like episodic monster of the week exploration, don't like exploring the wider crew, don't like ship porn and don't like moralizing then why make a Trek show at all. Why not make a new show.

It's just piggybacking on a name

I just think that Star Trek is many different things to many different people (and it can successfully and purposefully BE many different things), which is what makes it a more unique franchise than just about any other.

Unlike others, I think of Trek more as a brand and a general universe rather than something that "must contain certain elements." And, frankly, we've had 55 years of Trek that has followed certain conventions and it got flatter and more stale as it went. I think it's healthy to re-define the franchise with very different takes on it, build on the basic foundations of "ship, starfleet, zap guns, teleporters, etc" but attack it from very different and unique angles. I think it's one of the reasons I like the new series despite the fact that I can see warts and faults. I value the fact that it IS different than what has come before to the point where it vastly outweighs the stuff other people are put off by.

I don't think it's right or wrong to think about it either way. But I think my perspective and approach to the franchise has helped me appreciate much more of it than others have, because I don't have an expectation for what "real Star Trek should be."

 

[fireproof78]

I just think that Star Trek is many different things to many different people (and it can successfully and purposefully BE many different things), which is what makes it a more unique franchise than just about any other.

Unlike others, I think of Trek more as a brand and a general universe rather than something that "must contain certain elements." And, frankly, we've had 55 years of Trek that has followed certain conventions and it got flatter and more stale as it went. I think it's healthy to re-define the franchise with very different takes on it, build on the basic foundations of "ship, starfleet, zap guns, teleporters, etc" but attack it from very different and unique angles. I think it's one of the reasons I like the new series despite the fact that I can see warts and faults. I value the fact that it IS different than what has come before to the point where it vastly outweighs the stuff other people are put off by.

I don't think it's right or wrong to think about it either way. But I think my perspective and approach to the franchise has helped me appreciate much more of it than others have, because I don't have an expectation for what "real Star Trek should be."

I have a similar view. I am a person who doesn't like change but Star Trek is one of those places (among many, to be fair) where change was a good thing. I can't ever find the quote again but basically is was Rodenberry saying that some day someone would come along and reimagine Star Trek with their own way and he welcomed it. Of course, how he responded didn't always line up but that quote stuck with me, as well as Michael Piller's discussion about the "Roddenberry Box" in which humans don't mourn, they don't have conflict, they get along with each other with no problem. Which was fully on display in early TNG.

For me, it gave me that opportunity to look at Star Trek in a new light. It didn't have to be TOS (my preferred Trek, and how I got in to DS9) and it didn't have to be safe and familiar to still be engaging. That's why my expectations and definitions of Star Trek have become less ridged-I want to see what people can imagine, whether I agree or not.

 

[Amasov]

I get so frustrated for being mocked for liking TOS, even from Star Trek fans, growing up that having more of something that appeals to others is much more welcoming.

Want to send those names over to me so I know who to give a stern talking to?

 

[fireproof78]

Want to send those names over to me so I know who to give a stern talking to?

I think they have moved on but I appreciate the support.

 

[Amasov]

Cynically, but also jokingly, I like to say that nobody hates Star Trek more than Star Trek fans do.

 

[fireproof78]

Cynically, but also jokingly, I like to say that nobody hates Star Trek more than Star Trek fans do.

Nah, it was more the weird tribalism of "TOS vs. TNG" that plagued my middle school years. I always liked TOS and didn't have much love for TNG, while my group of friends were all in to TNG, DS9 and VOY. I was usually the outlier.

 

[Vger23]

I have a similar view. I am a person who doesn't like change but Star Trek is one of those places (among many, to be fair) where change was a good thing. I can't ever find the quote again but basically is was Rodenberry saying that some day someone would come along and reimagine Star Trek with their own way and he welcomed it. Of course, how he responded didn't always line up but that quote stuck with me, as well as Michael Piller's discussion about the "Roddenberry Box" in which humans don't mourn, they don't have conflict, they get along with each other with no problem. Which was fully on display in early TNG.

For me, it gave me that opportunity to look at Star Trek in a new light. It didn't have to be TOS (my preferred Trek, and how I got in to DS9) and it didn't have to be safe and familiar to still be engaging. That's why my expectations and definitions of Star Trek have become less ridged-I want to see what people can imagine, whether I agree or not.

I’ve said this before, but I think my perspective on Trek is based largely on how I “grew up” in the franchise. I started watching TOS reruns in the late 70s as a young kid. Then all of a sudden there’s this big movie where everything is totally different (uniforms, sets, music, characters, Klingons... literally almost everything). Then, two years later, there’s another movie and tons of stuff has changed again and a major character dies. Then the next movie they steal the ship and blow it up.

A few years later there’s a whole new series with new people on it that aren’t Kirk and Spock. Then they make another show, this time in a space station!


If you grew up in the franchise at any other time, you’re not used to those kinds of jarring changes. If you started in the 60’s, you had a whole decade of built up expectations to fight with when TMP came out. If you’re a child of TNG, you had 3 series that all looked, sounded, and felt almost exactly the same.

I think our tastes and expectations are shaped heavily by how we grew up with the franchise.

 

[Amasov]

Want to send those names over to me so I know who to give a stern talking to?

See and this is something about modern fandom I don't like. There's no in-between. If a fellow fan likes something you don't, that means they're ripe to be mocked. I know we've crossed paths many times in the Discovery thread over my not being a fan of the most recent season (despite liking the series overall), but never ONCE have I, or would I, mock someone else for enjoying it.

 

[fireproof78]

See and this is something about modern fandom I don't like. There's no in-between. If a fellow fan likes something you don't, that means they're ripe to be mocked. I know we've crossed paths many times in the Discovery thread over my not being a fan of the most recent season (despite liking the series overall), but never ONCE have I, or would I, mock someone else for enjoying it.

I do my best to not being mocking either, though I am a sarcastic jack so sometimes I respond without thinking about it

But, if I struggle with anything it is simply wishing people to watch stuff that actually brings them enjoyment. Hopefully my questions and responses don't come across as mocking...

 

[Amasov]

I’ve said this before, but I think my perspective on Trek is based largely on how I “grew up” in the franchise. I started watching TOS reruns in the late 70s as a young kid. Then all of a sudden there’s this big movie where everything is totally different (uniforms, sets, music, characters, Klingons... literally almost everything). Then, two years later, there’s another movie and tons of stuff has changed again and a major character dies. Then the next movie they steal the ship and blow it up.

A few years later there’s a whole new series with new people on it that aren’t Kirk and Spock. Then they make another show, this time in a space station!


If you grew up in the franchise at any other time, you’re not used to those kinds of jarring changes. If you started in the 60’s, you had a whole decade of built up expectations to fight with when TMP came out. If you’re a child of TNG, you had 3 series that all looked, sounded, and felt almost exactly the same.

I think our tastes and expectations are shaped heavily by how we grew up with the franchise.

I was born in the mid-80s and watched TOS, TAS, and all the films that were made up to that point. TOS was my Star Trek, despite finding it nearly two decades after it ended. One would probably think that when this newfangled, more modern Trek series came out (TNG, of course), that'd I'd gravitate toward that.

But I didn't.

It actually took me a LOOOOONG time to accept and get into The Next Generation even though I was the proper age for it to impact me. With TOS, those were just my characters. That's who I enjoyed watching.

 

[fireproof78]

I was born in the mid-80s and watched TOS, TAS, and all the films that were made up to that point. TOS was my Star Trek, despite finding it nearly two decades after it ended. One would probably think that when this newfangled, more modern Trek series came out (TNG, of course), that'd I'd gravitate toward that.

But I didn't.

It actually took me a LOOOOONG time to accept and get into The Next Generation even though I was the proper age for it to impact me. With TOS, those were just my characters. That's who I enjoyed watching.

Interesting. You and I are closer than it would seem.

 

[Amasov]

I do my best to not being mocking either, though I am a sarcastic jack so sometimes I respond without thinking about it

But, if I struggle with anything it is simply wishing people to watch stuff that actually brings them enjoyment. Hopefully my questions and responses don't come across as mocking...

Not. At. All.

I encourage spirited discussion - especially when it has opposing opinions, but, I would never try to enforce my feelings on someone or try to convince them to feel the same way I do. You could say that I take that "Roddenberry philosophy" to heart when it also comes to fandom in that I embrace difference.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I just think that Star Trek is many different things to many different people (and it can successfully and purposefully BE many different things), which is what makes it a more unique franchise than just about any other.

Unlike others, I think of Trek more as a brand and a general universe rather than something that "must contain certain elements." And, frankly, we've had 55 years of Trek that has followed certain conventions and it got flatter and more stale as it went. I think it's healthy to re-define the franchise with very different takes on it, build on the basic foundations of "ship, starfleet, zap guns, teleporters, etc" but attack it from very different and unique angles. I think it's one of the reasons I like the new series despite the fact that I can see warts and faults. I value the fact that it IS different than what has come before to the point where it vastly outweighs the stuff other people are put off by.

I don't think it's right or wrong to think about it either way. But I think my perspective and approach to the franchise has helped me appreciate much more of it than others have, because I don't have an expectation for what "real Star Trek should be."

Its not about what "real Trek should be" for me either I just dont understand why a writer, director or producer would want to bother when they could make a whole new franchise without any of the constraints they clearly seem to dislike. The most obvious one is JJ who I think would have been better off just making a sci-fi that was his own instead of Star Trek: should of had a name

 

[fireproof78]

I think JJ understood Trek as well as Nick Meyers did.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think JJ understood Trek as well as Nick Meyers did.

Technically the truth. JJ Abrams is a Star Wars fan and Nick Meyer is a non-fan whose true passion is 19th Century Literature.

 

[Worf factor9]

I’ve said this before, but I think my perspective on Trek is based largely on how I “grew up” in the franchise. I started watching TOS reruns in the late 70s as a young kid.

I grew up watching the reruns in the early 70's on UHF--gOOgle it --but I was thrilled as Hell when TMP came out. It took awhile to warm up to TNG, but things change and progress.

Crap, if only I could have back my 1968 Camaro RS with the 8-Track, her and be 16 again. That car would be worth a shit-load of $ today.

 

[fireproof78]

UHF--gOOgle it

I only got a link to some Weird Al film...


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