Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

[Citiprime]

Then what is the point of any of it? I’m fairly loose where continuity is concerned, but a franchise does have to respect its history and get the broad strokes right.

To me, this gets to the rub and what I see as the contradictions in the attitudes about the issue.

On the one hand, people will argue that Star Trek needs to try new things and expand in order to get new viewers. Fine. Do new things! And yet, what they end up defending is a reimagining of old things that have been done before, instead of trying to do something new to bring in new viewers.

What we've gotten is a mix of new and legacy characters in reimagined settings from the franchise's past, with many of the same story elements, just with different makeup. Or lets use Section 31 and Captain Garret from TNG's "Yesterday Enterprise," but in a way that's unrecognizable. Or let's go to a 32nd century where we use the progenitors from TNG's "The Chase" and the Breen from DS9, but do it in a way that doesn't really fit with the tone or the story of how they were originally envisioned.

So we need change. We need to go in new directions. We can't do the same old Star Trek that people know as Star Trek and is distinctive to many people as Star Trek. But... God forbid anyone suggest these new versions of Star Trek exist in their own universe as their own story that stands on its own!

If you want to change things, and you're changing them in a way that many fans feel is arguably incompatible with the rest of the continuity, there is nothing wrong with doing your own vision and letting it be its own story if you feel like it needs to change for a new audience. But let it be its own thing and acknowledge that this is not the same.

And, in my opinion, I think that's why Mike McMahon put a certain joke in the Lower Decks finale. And why he hasn't shot down any of the various interpretations of it. It points out the absurdities of this whole thing all around.

 

[BillJ]

On the one hand, people will argue that Star Trek needs to try new things and expand in order to get new viewers. Fine. Do new things! And yet, what they end up defending is a reimagining of old things that have been done before, instead of trying to do something new to bring in new viewers.

I largely don't blame the creators for anything other than the various shows being dull. They are playing with hundreds of millions of dollars of corporate money and have pressure to do certain things, from all sides.

 

[Citiprime]

I largely don't blame the creators for anything other than the various shows being dull. They are playing with hundreds of millions of dollars of corporate money and have pressure to do certain things, from all sides.

Here's the thing, though. If you're going to make the argument that: "Well, we gotta use the Klingons as antagonists because that's what people know and will be the biggest draw."

Ok ... But then it makes zero sense to create a version of the Klingons that's unrecognizable for large portions of the audience. And before people start screaming "TMP," you're talking about a 6-minute scene in a movie after they appeared in a limited number of episodes over 3 seasons of a TV show, versus a radical change that was meant to supplant a decades-known story element of a franchise for an entire season of television. Beyond that, what is the worth of using familiar story elements because they're popular if you're then going to change it into something totally different?

I feel like if the re-imagined Discovery version of the Klingons were a good story idea, they should be good enough to stand on their own as a new threat and new story idea.

 

[BillJ]

I feel like if the re-imagined Discovery version of the Klingons were a good story idea, they should be good enough to stand on…

For me, I just treat it as a multiverse. It all works much better that way.

 

[fireproof78]

Beyond that, what is the worth of using familiar story elements because they're popular if you're then going to change it into something totally different?

Because it's art.

feel like if the re-imagined Discovery version of the Klingons were a good story idea, they should be good enough to stand on their own as a new threat and new story idea.

They probably could. I don't see any issues with how the Klingons were used in the story. The major complaint I see is the make up.

The Klingons as a fractured infighting conglomerate of Great Houses is a pretty good tale, and relying upon a unifying figure, it's good too.

History has some decent examples of such figures so not sure how the Klingons don't stand on their own from a story perspective.

 

[Char Kais]

People hate Alex Kurtzman because his "creative" output is just bad. It always was, even before Star Trek.

All this talk about about how people hate him because he is the face of Star Trek or Star Trek fans always hated change (TNG was a ratings hit) is just deflection.

Only people with a corporate toxic-positivity fanboy mindset ("Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product") or people who like the divisive identity politics he injected into Star Trek can like what he created (or is responsible for as the man in charge). Even without looking at the divisive politics of NuTrek and all the antagonization it caused (I don't want to go into that any deeper here), Alex Kurtzman's body of work is not just not good, it's outright horrible on every level.


Kurtzman was the wrong choice for Star Trek:

Alex Kurtzman collaborator with Michael Bay on multiple projects. That alone should disqualify him to work on Star Trek.

Alex Kurtzman wrote 3 Michael Bay movies:
The Island 2005
Transformers 2007
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen 2009

One reason why I don't like JJ Abrams' Star Trek 2009 is because the Kelvin timeline Kirk is written as an immature, brattish, infantile, bumbling buffoon, like Shia LaBeouf's Sam Witwicky.
Chris Pine's Kirk was written like Shia LaBeouf's Sam Witwicky. The screaming, the running, the Shia LaBeoufing, the timing of some of the "comedic" scenes (Kirk/Witwicky bed scene). And Chris Pine does his darndest job trying to do a Shia LaBeouf impression.
Thanks Alex Kurtzman (and JarJar Abrams).

Alex Kurtzman also wrote:
Cowboys & Aliens 2011
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 2014

And Alex Kurtzman wrote and directed The Mummy 2017, a total disaster on every level.

"The Mummy", the last project Alex Kurtzman worked on before Discovery, got him 8 Golden Raspberry Awards nominations and Tom Cruise, the actor he directed and wrote the script for won the Golden Raspberry for "Worst Actor".

Alex Kurtzman has a "Worst Screenplay" Razzie for "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" and Transformers 2, the movie he wrote, also got a Razzie for "Worst Picture", Michael Bay got a Razzie for "Worst Director" and Transformers 2 got 4 additional Razzie nominations.

Before he was involved with Star Trek Alex Kurtzman killed two franchises.
The second iterations of Sony's Spider-Man franchises with Andrew Garfield (Sinister Six) and Universal Pictures's Dark Universe cinematic universe. The "Dark Universe" was dead on arrival and is still dead and Spider-Man had to be revived by Kevin Feige, a far more talented producer.


BTW:

The current showrunner of Strange News World (and Picard S1/S2), Akiva Goldsman, also worked for Michael Bay. He wrote the fifth and last Michael Bay Transformers movie. A financial and critical disaster.

Both Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman had huge cinematic disasters in 2017 before working on Star Trek Discovery.
Akiva Goldsman's "Transformers: The Last Knight" has even more Golden Raspberry Awards nominations (10) than Alex Kurtzman's "The Mummy" (8).
Akiva Goldsman had a second cinematic disaster in 2017 with "The Dark Tower".

Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman are both in director's and writer's jail.

And these ware the people who are in charge of Star Trek.

Can we have people in charge of Star Trek that
A) Didn't work with Michael Bay
B) Don't have Golden Raspberries (and even one Raspberry, and no even nominations)


It's also a logical fallacy to say that after 2005, the direction Abrams/Kurtzman took Star Trek was the only possible way for Star Trek to move forward.

 

[Dukhat]

You and locborg should get together and go bowling.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman are both in director's and writer's jail.

is that where Goldsman keeps his Oscar?

 

[Campe]

I’m saddened by the absence of charts.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I’m saddened by the absence of charts.

Replaced with unnecessary graphics. Because apparently we can't read or something.

 

[Char Kais]

is that where Goldsman keeps his Oscar?

Not everyone is equally good in every genre.

Akiva Goldsman seems to be better at adapting an existing book (a Pulitzer Prize finalist) about a real person and real events than he is with writing Science Fiction.

Every piece of Sci Fi Akiva Goldsman wrote is bad:

Lost in Space
I, Robot
I Am Legend
The Divergent Series: Insurgent
The 5th Wave
Transformers: The Last Knight
The Dark Tower
Star Trek...

He also wrote the Joel Schumacher Batman movies. Yeah, real Oscar worthy stuff.

 

[Dukhat]

Not everyone is equally good in every genre.

Akiva Goldsman seems to be better at adapting an existing book (a Pulitzer Prize finalist) about a real person and real events than he is with writing Science Fiction.

Every piece of Sci Fi Akiva Goldsman wrote is bad:

Lost in Space
I, Robot
I Am Legend
The Divergent Series: Insurgent
The 5th Wave
Transformers: The Last Knight
The Dark Tower
Star Trek...

He also wrote the Joel Schumacher Batman movies. Yeah, real Oscar worthy stuff.

I’m looking forward to seeing your Oscar winning Star Trek series.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not everyone is equally good in every genre.

Akiva Goldsman seems to be better at adapting an existing book (a Pulitzer Prize finalist) about a real person and real events than he is with writing Science Fiction.

Every piece of Sci Fi Akiva Goldsman wrote is bad:

Lost in Space
I, Robot
I Am Legend
The Divergent Series: Insurgent
The 5th Wave
Transformers: The Last Knight
The Dark Tower
Star Trek...

He also wrote the Joel Schumacher Batman movies. Yeah, real Oscar worthy stuff.

Yet he still has an Oscar.
He's also helming a well received Star Trek show.
And worked on the well received SF show called Fringe ( You might have heard of it) Created by the three horsemen of the Trekpoclyse J. J. Abrams, Alex Kurtzman, and Roberto Orci.

Writers do the job they're hired to do. And yeah sometimes they write things that suck. Lord knows there are things on that list that I think suck.

 

[1001001]

People hate Alex Kurtzman because his "creative" output is just bad. It always was, even before Star Trek.

All this talk about about how people hate him because he is the face of Star Trek or Star Trek fans always hated change (TNG was a ratings hit) is just deflection.

Only people with a corporate toxic-positivity fanboy mindset ("Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product") or people who like the divisive identity politics he injected into Star Trek can like what he created (or is responsible for as the man in charge). Even without looking at the divisive politics of NuTrek and all the antagonization it caused (I don't want to go into that any deeper here), Alex Kurtzman's body of work is not just not good, it's outright horrible on every level.


Kurtzman was the wrong choice for Star Trek:

Alex Kurtzman collaborator with Michael Bay on multiple projects. That alone should disqualify him to work on Star Trek.

Alex Kurtzman wrote 3 Michael Bay movies:
The Island 2005
Transformers 2007
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen 2009

One reason why I don't like JJ Abrams' Star Trek 2009 is because the Kelvin timeline Kirk is written as an immature, brattish, infantile, bumbling buffoon, like Shia LaBeouf's Sam Witwicky.
Chris Pine's Kirk was written like Shia LaBeouf's Sam Witwicky. The screaming, the running, the Shia LaBeoufing, the timing of some of the "comedic" scenes (Kirk/Witwicky bed scene). And Chris Pine does his darndest job trying to do a Shia LaBeouf impression.
Thanks Alex Kurtzman (and JarJar Abrams).

Alex Kurtzman also wrote:
Cowboys & Aliens 2011
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 2014

And Alex Kurtzman wrote and directed The Mummy 2017, a total disaster on every level.

"The Mummy", the last project Alex Kurtzman worked on before Discovery, got him 8 Golden Raspberry Awards nominations and Tom Cruise, the actor he directed and wrote the script for won the Golden Raspberry for "Worst Actor".

Alex Kurtzman has a "Worst Screenplay" Razzie for "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" and Transformers 2, the movie he wrote, also got a Razzie for "Worst Picture", Michael Bay got a Razzie for "Worst Director" and Transformers 2 got 4 additional Razzie nominations.

Before he was involved with Star Trek Alex Kurtzman killed two franchises.
The second iterations of Sony's Spider-Man franchises with Andrew Garfield (Sinister Six) and Universal Pictures's Dark Universe cinematic universe. The "Dark Universe" was dead on arrival and is still dead and Spider-Man had to be revived by Kevin Feige, a far more talented producer.


BTW:

The current showrunner of Strange News World (and Picard S1/S2), Akiva Goldsman, also worked for Michael Bay. He wrote the fifth and last Michael Bay Transformers movie. A financial and critical disaster.

Both Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman had huge cinematic disasters in 2017 before working on Star Trek Discovery.
Akiva Goldsman's "Transformers: The Last Knight" has even more Golden Raspberry Awards nominations (10) than Alex Kurtzman's "The Mummy" (8).
Akiva Goldsman had a second cinematic disaster in 2017 with "The Dark Tower".

Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman are both in director's and writer's jail.

And these ware the people who are in charge of Star Trek.

Can we have people in charge of Star Trek that
A) Didn't work with Michael Bay
B) Don't have Golden Raspberries (and even one Raspberry, and no even nominations)


It's also a logical fallacy to say that after 2005, the direction Abrams/Kurtzman took Star Trek was the only possible way for Star Trek to move forward.

I like the Kelvin movies and most of NuTrek. Especially Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I like the Kelvin movies and most of NuTrek. Especially Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds.

No, you don't. And he's telling you why.

 

[Nerys Myk]

 

[fireproof78]

I love how we must always use a person's past against them in this IDIC environment.

 

[donners22]

He's done a fine job, and I'd take the average Kurtzman-era episode over a Berman-era episode any day.

If someone like Kurtzman had been involved a lot earlier, maybe the franchise wouldn't have been run into the ground by the formulaic likes of Voyager, Enterprise and Insurrection.

I don't take the hate particularly seriously. Firstly, Berman and co were widely derided at the time; DS9 was divisive and Voyager, Enterprise and the TNG films were hated by many. It's only when a new era came along that was suddenly forgotten and previous Trek was lumped into a blob. Secondly, some of the prominent hate at this era from the outset was accompanied by overt bigotry; goodness knows how much more was veiled. Thirdly, the love for Picard season 3 from prominent haters demonstrates the absurdity; that season did a lot of stuff that Discovery was criticised for, but because it was TNG 2.0 it was suddenly fine.

I still happily watch Trek; I just disengage from the miserable fanbase.

 

[Danja]

I’m saddened by the absence of charts.

Darth Vader: "I find your lack of charts disturbing."

People hate Alex Kurtzman because his "creative" output is just bad. It always was, even before Star Trek.

All this talk about about how people hate him because he is the face of Star Trek or Star Trek fans always hated change (TNG was a ratings hit) is just deflection.

Only people with a corporate toxic-positivity fanboy mindset ("Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product") or people who like the divisive identity politics he injected into Star Trek can like what he created (or is responsible for as the man in charge). Even without looking at the divisive politics of NuTrek and all the antagonization it caused (I don't want to go into that any deeper here), Alex Kurtzman's body of work is not just not good, it's outright horrible on every level.

Today's audiences want edge-of-your-seat popcorn fare.

They're not interested in sitting through a graduate seminar in philosophy and ethics every single week.

One reason why I don't like JJ Abrams' Star Trek 2009 is because the Kelvin timeline Kirk is written as an immature, brattish, infantile, bumbling buffoon, like Shia LaBeouf's Sam Witwicky.

Kirk jumped from being a cadet to being named Captain of the Enterprise. He had to grow into the position.

 

[Daedalus]

People hate Alex Kurtzman because his "creative" output is just bad. It always was, even before Star Trek.

All this talk about about how people hate him because he is the face of Star Trek or Star Trek fans always hated change (TNG was a ratings hit) is just deflection.

Only people with a corporate toxic-positivity fanboy mindset ("Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product") or people who like the divisive identity politics he injected into Star Trek can like what he created (or is responsible for as the man in charge). Even without looking at the divisive politics of NuTrek and all the antagonization it caused (I don't want to go into that any deeper here), Alex Kurtzman's body of work is not just not good, it's outright horrible on every level.


Kurtzman was the wrong choice for Star Trek:

Alex Kurtzman collaborator with Michael Bay on multiple projects. That alone should disqualify him to work on Star Trek.

Alex Kurtzman wrote 3 Michael Bay movies:
The Island 2005
Transformers 2007
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen 2009

One reason why I don't like JJ Abrams' Star Trek 2009 is because the Kelvin timeline Kirk is written as an immature, brattish, infantile, bumbling buffoon, like Shia LaBeouf's Sam Witwicky.
Chris Pine's Kirk was written like Shia LaBeouf's Sam Witwicky. The screaming, the running, the Shia LaBeoufing, the timing of some of the "comedic" scenes (Kirk/Witwicky bed scene). And Chris Pine does his darndest job trying to do a Shia LaBeouf impression.
Thanks Alex Kurtzman (and JarJar Abrams).

Alex Kurtzman also wrote:
Cowboys & Aliens 2011
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 2014

And Alex Kurtzman wrote and directed The Mummy 2017, a total disaster on every level.

"The Mummy", the last project Alex Kurtzman worked on before Discovery, got him 8 Golden Raspberry Awards nominations and Tom Cruise, the actor he directed and wrote the script for won the Golden Raspberry for "Worst Actor".

Alex Kurtzman has a "Worst Screenplay" Razzie for "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" and Transformers 2, the movie he wrote, also got a Razzie for "Worst Picture", Michael Bay got a Razzie for "Worst Director" and Transformers 2 got 4 additional Razzie nominations.

Before he was involved with Star Trek Alex Kurtzman killed two franchises.
The second iterations of Sony's Spider-Man franchises with Andrew Garfield (Sinister Six) and Universal Pictures's Dark Universe cinematic universe. The "Dark Universe" was dead on arrival and is still dead and Spider-Man had to be revived by Kevin Feige, a far more talented producer.


BTW:

The current showrunner of Strange News World (and Picard S1/S2), Akiva Goldsman, also worked for Michael Bay. He wrote the fifth and last Michael Bay Transformers movie. A financial and critical disaster.

Both Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman had huge cinematic disasters in 2017 before working on Star Trek Discovery.
Akiva Goldsman's "Transformers: The Last Knight" has even more Golden Raspberry Awards nominations (10) than Alex Kurtzman's "The Mummy" (8).
Akiva Goldsman had a second cinematic disaster in 2017 with "The Dark Tower".

Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman are both in director's and writer's jail.

And these ware the people who are in charge of Star Trek.

Can we have people in charge of Star Trek that
A) Didn't work with Michael Bay
B) Don't have Golden Raspberries (and even one Raspberry, and no even nominations)


It's also a logical fallacy to say that after 2005, the direction Abrams/Kurtzman took Star Trek was the only possible way for Star Trek to move forward.

I quite like Transformers 2007, The Island and Cowboys and Aliens.

Transformers was successful in a number of ways, but for me, it led to the "but it came out in 2007" meme. It's still a source of infinite amusement at my end! But, zero love for the Transformers films that followed, except maybe Bumblebee.

Credit where credit is due, we aren't expected to believe that Kelvin Kirk is the original Kirk but younger, its elseworlds Kirk. No more than David Niven's Bond is the supposed to be the familiar Eon Bond. Treat it as a spoof, and you might have more fun with it.