Why Such Hate???

[cmdrbolly]

I did not, but that has nothing to do with the point to which I was replying.

If you wish to be so specific, then neither did your response to Vaadwur, who was responding to Dayton3.

The point is I've never seen anyone complain so much about a film they don't want to see.

If it was as innocuous as ' that looks like it's going to suck, I'm not going to go see it', then by all means DON'T SEE IT. If, however one wishes to go as far as to rage and opine about it on a message board, then it's just being a wee bit pompous and mendacious, don't you think?

 

[Holodoc]

I don't, because I don't think you're using either word properly. It would only be mendacious if the poster had claimed to have seen the film but was lying about it, and it is no more pompous than anyone else believing that anyone on the internet is interested in their own, personal opinion. I'd think it's silly, certainly, and possibly a waste of time, but no more than that. And given the extremes to which the internet provides opportunities to both be silly and waste time, even then it's quite a minor matter.

 

[cmdrbolly]

I don't, because I don't think you're using either word properly. It would only be mendacious if the poster had claimed to have seen the film but was lying about it, and it is no more pompous than anyone else believing that anyone on the internet is interested in their own, personal opinion. I'd think it's silly, certainly, and possibly a waste of time, but no more than that. And given the extremes to which the internet provides opportunities to both be silly and waste time, even then it's quite a minor matter.

His mendacity lies in his public refusal to watch the film, very clearly despite his own very strong unvoiced desire to do so. Enough to want to download it or watch it as a bootleg. His logic, and your defense of it, as to why he doesn't have to is tissue thin.

 

[Holodoc]

His mendacity lies in his public refusal to watch the film, very clearly despite his own very strong unvoiced desire to do so. Enough to want to download it or watch it as a bootleg. His logic, and your defense of it, as to why he doesn't have to is tissue thin.

I don't know how you could know that someone on the internet has an 'unvoiced' desire to do anything, since all you have here is what people say to you. If somehow that is in fact the case, and unlike a great many people around here I'm not going to claim that I know another's mind, then sure, I suppose that would be mendacious to some degree.

As for my defense of his logic, I did no such thing, thank you. I was making an isolated point with regards to an isolated comment. That you've decided to read something into my comment perhaps is the result of poor communication on my part, but I can assure you, it's no more than that.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

I have been reading the posts on here since i saw the movie Friday. I have seen every episode of every series except the animated series and i have seen and own every movie.

I liked the movie and I think it might be the ticket to a trek revival.

But I constantly see people bashing this new movie and its storyline. I ask why?

Is this why trek has been dying for YEARS now? The moment someone tried to do a storyline which in my book does a good job in both staying faithful to its lineage and bringing new people.

I have been bashed over the years for liking star trek the image was so shot to hell.

And yet here we are on face of a new beginning and we get people saying stuff like "I wish they never made this movie, Better DEAD then this". Are we this closed minded that we CANNOT accept any changes to anything.

I ask you were was trek headed before word of this movie even started to spread. To me it seemed it was on the fast track down the toilet. Nothing in the works and ENT was canceled.

Yet when we get a glimmer of hope that STAR TREK might live again. We instantly get people who BLAST everything that was possibly changed.

I say if changes like this were not needed WHY THE HELL WAS STAR TREK DYING!

I think the series is so weak right now they wouldn't dare start a tv series. I also think that unless everything goes absolutely perfect for the next few movies this brief respite will be just that a short time when thing went up rather then down. At this point I can't even envision a series no matter how many movies they make. The Star Trek image is so bad right now.

Would I love a new series to be made? Yes I would certainly love to see it that strong. But when we as fans spew so much hate about the changes to be made to try to SAVE Star Trek it does nothing but make me wonder how we even got this far in the first place.


To those who accuse the new movie of killing the old star trek I say this. Doesn't something have to be alive to be killed? Last I checked the "old" was canceled and rating were way down.

Even if this movie had not been made the 'old" would still be dead in my book. What had not been done? where had we not been? To me it seems ran out of good and above all PROFITABLE ideas. Complain about it all you want anything not making money is not going to last no matter how good or awesome it may be.

So can we STOP bashing everything and everyone under the sun? If the "old" was doing so well and great something like this wouldn't have needed to happen.

This sort of thing happens a lot. You get die hard fans who will always stick by the original and don't want to see anyone else play their beloved characters. I think people should get away from that attitude and learn to accept that different people have different visions and change can be good and refreshing.

There are people who wont even see the movie yet hate it with a passion because it deals with the original and they can't stand to see an updated version of it.

 

[cmdrbolly]

His mendacity lies in his public refusal to watch the film, very clearly despite his own very strong unvoiced desire to do so. Enough to want to download it or watch it as a bootleg. His logic, and your defense of it, as to why he doesn't have to is tissue thin.

I don't know how you could know that someone on the internet has an 'unvoiced' desire to do anything, since all you have here is what people say to you. If somehow that is in fact the case, and unlike a great many people around here I'm not going to claim that I know another's mind, then sure, I suppose that would be mendacious to some degree.

As for my defense of his logic, I did no such thing, thank you. I was making an isolated point with regards to an isolated comment. That you've decided to read something into my comment perhaps is the result of poor communication on my part, but I can assure you, it's no more than that.

Now I don't claim any extrasensory powers for myself any more than the next chap, but Dayton's posted so often about his hate-on that it's been impossible to miss. He's mentioned that he's definitely going to download STXI or get a boot. That coupled with his innumerable posts about the film are pretty strong indicators of said desire - I can't see investing so much time and energy in something you're going to give a miss - certainly not with the same sort of wan indifference as one might dismiss Gigli. So it's clearly a bloody act.

I may have misunderstood your original intent when you posted what you did. My apologies. I am a recent arrival to this message board, which I had sought out expecting to bask in the fun camaraderie of shared enjoyment of what I'd thought was a reasonably successful re-invigoration of a franchise I knew and loved. I did not think I was going to run into such a wall of unadulterated hate and vitriol.

 

[Nomad8324]

I agree with letting someone have their own opinion as they are entitled to it.

But to me it seems some people just hate it for the sheer fact of hating it and trying to get others to do the same.

Or that this has killed the series. Which I disagree with since it was pretty much dead/dying before this movie and I was shocked to find out it was being made.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Some of the 'lovers' are just as obnoxious as the 'haters,' if you ask me.

 

[Danny99]

I don't think it matters what those that didn't like it have to say about it. The point was to expand Trek into an audience that doesn't watch Trek & to a generation that doesn't know it. They are the future of the franshise, not the ones that can't move forward. I think Dayton 3 is exactly the type of fan Paramount & the Trek franshise is trying to leave behind. Trek can't have a future with that type of support from the fanbase.

Well said.

Definitely well said.

This movie was definitely made to a generation who was brought up on action films, just as TOS was made in an era where Vietnam and the hippie generation were the norm. They're two different Star Treks made for two different times.

 

[Holodoc]

Now I don't claim any extrasensory powers for myself any more than the next chap, but Dayton's posted so often about his hate-on that it's been impossible to miss. He's mentioned that he's definitely going to download STXI or get a boot. That coupled with his innumerable posts about the film are pretty strong indicators of said desire - I can't see investing so much time and energy in something you're going to give a miss - certainly not with the same sort of wan indifference as one might dismiss Gigli. So it's clearly a bloody act.

Oh, well if he's going to bootleg something he believes he'll hate, that makes sense. After all, in following the Grading and Review thread I've often seen those who liked the movie respond to those who didn't with some comment about how they appreciate them contributing to its success anyway, usually followed by a smilie face sticking out its tongue. If this Dayton wants to be able to more accurately criticize the film, but doesn't want to in any way, shape or form reward the people and institutions he believes made a film that is both terrible on its face and an affront to X number of years of beloved Trek (because hey, not everyone loved all those years), then I wouldn't say there'd be anything mendacious about his downloading a copy and watching that.

I suppose the real question it comes down to is, did this person hate the idea of watching the film, or just of paying to watch the film?

I may have misunderstood your original intent when you posted what you did. My apologies. I am a recent arrival to this message board, which I had sought out expecting to bask in the fun camaraderie of shared enjoyment of what I'd thought was a reasonably successful re-invigoration of a franchise I knew and loved. I did not think I was going to run into such a wall of unadulterated hate and vitriol.

Oh come now, sir, let's not tell tall tales here. I myself was quite disappointed with the film, but I freely admit I'm in a huge minority, both here and to an even greater degree amongst the movie-going populace at large. There are a few people who disliked the film and have good reasons to offer, and a much, much smaller number who seem to have made up their minds on principle ahead of time. But both of those groups are dwarfed to insignificance by the sheer amount of unadulterated love this film has recieved.

Wall of hate and vitriol, indeed. Please, my good man.

 

[Blue_Trek]

Well the war between the Gushers and the Bashers exists, in Star Wars, one forum had something called "The Bashers Sanctuary" there you could bash away freely, to gush in that thread was considered trolling. But I never could resist, lol and had to go in there and defend and gush.

These fans have the identical mindset, old is good, new is bad, They can't handle change. Change makes them bitter. And they forget that they have changed, they have grown, perhaps they are in denial that they aren't really fans anymore.

To them I say.

"We are the Neo-fans, Resistance is Futile, you will be assimilated"

 

[Holodoc]

Wow.

So, you've just admitted that you troll whenever you feel like it, and then declared that the fact that people don't like it is immaterial because they won't have a choice. And you've mixed it all in with some of that incredibly tired "fear of change" drivel, to boot, along with a nice little dollop of accusing people of being in denial, an irrefutable claim, internet-logic wise.

You, sir, have hit that one clear out of the park.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

[...] wants to be able to more accurately criticize the film [...] his downloading a copy and watching that.

I'd say there would be a problem with that; the last thing someone -- apprehensive about the movie -- wants to do is download that horrible screener that's been floating around the net these last few days. Imagine looking at a screen, where you only actually see less then a 4th of the screen, where the colors are so oversaturated everything is either red, blue or green and the movie is so blurry every action sequence does become totally incomprehensible.

If that would be the movie I saw, I would completely and utterly bash Star Trek to the ground.

 

[M'Sharak]

Closing for review.