Because the costume designer was the same guy who gave Batman's suit nipples.
Why Star Trek Nemesis failed to reach the heights of TWOK
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
Because the costume designer was the same guy who gave Batman's suit nipples.
Every couple of years I go and rewatch to see if it's as big a trainwreck as I originally remember it being... it always is.
THIS!
BTW, Troi is the only "hot" babe on Enterprise?? Of all the delicious women on Enterprise, Shinzon has to pick Troi? Granted at this point she was still somewhat OK (3 years before the wax work/bad facelift Troi of TATV), but there's no one else? Someone closer to his age? But then, the plot wouldn't be served, would it?
As remarked in the Red Letter review, the whole movie has a rather downbeat tone. The entire movie is about endings, people leaving, people dying, people getting raped, people getting sucked out of windows and people getting melted with acid (or whatever the hell it is).
Amongst all the stuff the has been mentioned before, there are some really odd musical cues. When Picard is cracking the line about going to the gym, the music doesnt fit at all. It seems totally out of place. Goldsmiths worst score.
And the ending is truly terrible. The last shot in the entire franchise is of Picard walking down a coridoor? Really? I know they cut out the last few scenes and these things are budgeted but who's idea was it to finish with that?
Was there nothing left to shoot a proper ending?
Honestly, this is the only film in the franchise I cannot watch.
Amongst all the stuff the has been mentioned before, there are some really odd musical cues. When Picard is cracking the line about going to the gym, the music doesnt fit at all. It seems totally out of place. Goldsmiths worst score.
And the ending is truly terrible. The last shot in the entire franchise is of Picard walking down a coridoor? Really? I know they cut out the last few scenes and these things are budgeted but who's idea was it to finish with that?
Was there nothing left to shoot a proper ending?
Honestly, this is the only film in the franchise I cannot watch.
As remarked in the Red Letter review, the whole movie has a rather downbeat tone. The entire movie is about endings, people leaving, people dying, people getting raped, people getting sucked out of windows and people getting melted with acid (or whatever the hell it is).
Amongst all the stuff the has been mentioned before, there are some really odd musical cues. When Picard is cracking the line about going to the gym, the music doesnt fit at all. It seems totally out of place. Goldsmiths worst score.
And the ending is truly terrible. The last shot in the entire franchise is of Picard walking down a coridoor? Really? I know they cut out the last few scenes and these things are budgeted but who's idea was it to finish with that?
Was there nothing left to shoot a proper ending?
Honestly, this is the only film in the franchise I cannot watch.
With Picard walking down the corridor, I believe they were echoing this from Balance of Terror.
As remarked in the Red Letter review, the whole movie has a rather downbeat tone. The entire movie is about endings, people leaving, people dying, people getting raped, people getting sucked out of windows and people getting melted with acid (or whatever the hell it is).
Amongst all the stuff the has been mentioned before, there are some really odd musical cues. When Picard is cracking the line about going to the gym, the music doesnt fit at all. It seems totally out of place. Goldsmiths worst score.
And the ending is truly terrible. The last shot in the entire franchise is of Picard walking down a coridoor? Really? I know they cut out the last few scenes and these things are budgeted but who's idea was it to finish with that?
Was there nothing left to shoot a proper ending?
Honestly, this is the only film in the franchise I cannot watch.
With Picard walking down the corridor, I believe they were echoing this from Balance of Terror.
You think?
o me, thats coincindence. I could buy the shot of Picard walking down the coridoor if it was the end of an episode and they were constrained by time.
But the end of a movie??
Contrast that shot with the last shot of any other Star Trek movie.
Nemesis failed to reach the heights of TWOK because it tried. Instead of giving the fans something new, they rehashed a movie we already saw a million times, and did it badly. Was the production team so dried up that they decided to just go with a remake?
It's like they went with a checklist of the stuff that was in TWOK:
Villain with a grudge against the captain. Check
Villain with a super-weapon. Check
Space battle in a Nebula. Check
Main cast member dying. Check
It's like they went with a checklist of the stuff that was in TWOK:
Villain with a grudge against the captain. Check
Villain with a super-weapon. Check
Space battle in a Nebula. Check
Main cast member dying. Check
Doesn't surprise me. That episode seemed to have been on the mind of the writer, John Logan. Who is maybe just uber-fan enough to specify what each scene should look like on the screen. Let's have a replica of the Neutral Zone map on the floor of the Romulan Senate. Let's begin with a marriage and end with a focus on those left behind, coming to terms with a death. Actually... swap Data's death for Mr & Mrs Troi being split up forever, and there's instantly more punch.
Hell... I regularly obsess over "Balance of Terror" come to think of it. Come to me for a movie idea, and I'll inevitably want something in it connected to that episode. It'd boil down to one of three things. Whether a final TNG story, involving peace being made with the Romulans. An ENT one, just too obvious a focus... tie the Earth-Romulan War with the Birth of the Federation. Or an Abramsverse one, update the episode itself with a subsequent "Yesterday's Enterprise" scenario which sprang from the U.S.S. Kelvin's destruction and how Nero's actions opened a pandora's box of woe for the UFP. Kirk rising to Captain the Enterprise, at a time when Starfleet is little more than six months away from having to surrender to the Romulan Star Empire.
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I didn't know that Nemesis was going for a TNG-version of TWOK but if it was I definitely agree that it didn't get it. I also agree, as other people have said here, FC was a much better attempt and had the added bonus of being almost a flip-side of TWOK with Picard seeking revenge against the Borg and letting it drive him nearly to his destruction, as well as that of his crew/ship. The parallel to Moby Dick in FC was well-realized.
I have mixed feelings about Nemesis. It's definitely NOT the best of the bunch and is one of the "weaker" ones though it was a slight improvement over "Insurrection" IMHO. It had some good scenes in it such as the final ship battle and a few other scenes here and there and it had great special effects but it ultimately ended up feeling sort of "clunky" and "jumbled" overall.
Having seen some of the deleted scenes, I feel like they ultimately cut out some good material that might have enhanced the overall movie and/or made it flow better. I also feel like more attention should have been paid to the fact that some of the crew were leaving the Enterprise and moving on. I don't know if anybody else liked it but I loved the cut scene where the remaining crew play a prank on Picards new first officer. As it stands, Nemesis was o.k. but it could have/should have been better and it's a shame that it had to be the last ST movie made in the "old" Trekverse.
I have mixed feelings about Nemesis. It's definitely NOT the best of the bunch and is one of the "weaker" ones though it was a slight improvement over "Insurrection" IMHO. It had some good scenes in it such as the final ship battle and a few other scenes here and there and it had great special effects but it ultimately ended up feeling sort of "clunky" and "jumbled" overall.
Having seen some of the deleted scenes, I feel like they ultimately cut out some good material that might have enhanced the overall movie and/or made it flow better. I also feel like more attention should have been paid to the fact that some of the crew were leaving the Enterprise and moving on. I don't know if anybody else liked it but I loved the cut scene where the remaining crew play a prank on Picards new first officer. As it stands, Nemesis was o.k. but it could have/should have been better and it's a shame that it had to be the last ST movie made in the "old" Trekverse.
What I missed was seeing the main cast's names in the opening credits. I know the fashion has returned to putting names on the end credits instead, but the premiere audiences of TMP-Insurrection could be heard applauding all the names as they apperared, really getting the audience into the mood for a communal enjoyment of a new ST adventure on the big screen.
Of the deleted scenes, I'd have liked seeing the reinstatement of the Data/Picard toasting scene, after the wedding, which properly sets up Data's sacrifice at the end.
I really didn't like the seatbelt joke in "Nemesis"; ST ships have had seat restraints since TAS (white shoulder harnesses in one scene) and TMP (the automated fold-down thigh clamps). It was an embarrassing scene.
Of the deleted scenes, I'd have liked seeing the reinstatement of the Data/Picard toasting scene, after the wedding, which properly sets up Data's sacrifice at the end.
I really didn't like the seatbelt joke in "Nemesis"; ST ships have had seat restraints since TAS (white shoulder harnesses in one scene) and TMP (the automated fold-down thigh clamps). It was an embarrassing scene.
I dont think anyone can definitively say why the film failed, as it could be any number of reasons for any number of people. But there were a lot of things that I thought were just plain silly.
One of which was the dune buggy scene. In the 24th century, where ships can travel the stars incredibly fast, transporters, artificial- an anti-gravity; why? Why why why WHY? Why do you need a four-wheeled vehicle? A shuttle, or something like an anti-gravity hover boat could go anywhere, even places the buggy couldn't.
I dont really mind Tom Hardy. Shinzon was a terrible character, but I got the impression that Hardy did the best he could with what he was given. Even the best chef's in the world can't make shit taste like pudding.
For me, it's probably tied with The Failing Frontier, and I just dont personally care for them. I will still watch them from time to time, when I go through all of trek.
One of which was the dune buggy scene. In the 24th century, where ships can travel the stars incredibly fast, transporters, artificial- an anti-gravity; why? Why why why WHY? Why do you need a four-wheeled vehicle? A shuttle, or something like an anti-gravity hover boat could go anywhere, even places the buggy couldn't.
I dont really mind Tom Hardy. Shinzon was a terrible character, but I got the impression that Hardy did the best he could with what he was given. Even the best chef's in the world can't make shit taste like pudding.
For me, it's probably tied with The Failing Frontier, and I just dont personally care for them. I will still watch them from time to time, when I go through all of trek.
Considering it's worse than Generations and that wasn't that great? Yes.
I don't know, The Motion Picture and Generations did pretty good box office yet we still talk about those films many shortcomings.
Why Star Trek Nemesis failed to reach the heights of TWOK
Simple. As SFdebris stated, The Next Generation crew already went through a TWOK height. It was called First Contact.
And here's another good one. Rick Berman wanted to bring in fresh talent to make Star Trek different. The difference between how Nemesis and TWOK handled new talent is pretty obvious.
TWOK: Gene Roddenberry's role as producer was given to Harve Bennett.
Nemesis: Rick Berman stayed on as producer.
TWOK: Nicholas Meyer worked with about 5 drafts of the script in order to create one workable script which he would not get any credit for.
Nemesis: Director Stuart Baird was happy to incorporate pointless scenes of Patrick Stewart driving a vehicle just so they can fulfill their most paid actor in his indulgence.
TWOK: Nicholas Meyer comes from a fairly low-key, but otherwise successful line of directorial work and has written a variety of books both fiction and non-fiction.
Nemesis: Stuart Baird is a born hollywood film editor who couldn't pronounce LeVar Burton's name correctly... even after the filming.
TWOK: The film makers were convinced that they had a great villain because Khan had history with Kirk, was well versed in important literature and was played by the talented Ricardo Montalbán.
Nemesis: The film makers were convinced that they had a great clone villain for Picard simply because Shinzon was bald. That's it. They were so convinced that this would be the key selling point that they even retconned Picard's past to accommodate it.
Results?
- TWOK saved the film franchise.
- Nemesis killed the film franchise.
The biggest of all of these points is without a doubt Rick Berman staying on as Producer. Bringing in new talent can be a very good thing, but having Rick choose to remain in charge and replace everyone else only allowed him to bring more of what many considered to be weak contributions to the franchise in full force. Between him firing Ron Jones for doing a fantastic job on the TNG series and picking Stuart Baird over LeVar Burton, it's a miracle he's not looked upon more than he is.
Simple. As SFdebris stated, The Next Generation crew already went through a TWOK height. It was called First Contact.
And here's another good one. Rick Berman wanted to bring in fresh talent to make Star Trek different. The difference between how Nemesis and TWOK handled new talent is pretty obvious.
TWOK: Gene Roddenberry's role as producer was given to Harve Bennett.
Nemesis: Rick Berman stayed on as producer.
TWOK: Nicholas Meyer worked with about 5 drafts of the script in order to create one workable script which he would not get any credit for.
Nemesis: Director Stuart Baird was happy to incorporate pointless scenes of Patrick Stewart driving a vehicle just so they can fulfill their most paid actor in his indulgence.
TWOK: Nicholas Meyer comes from a fairly low-key, but otherwise successful line of directorial work and has written a variety of books both fiction and non-fiction.
Nemesis: Stuart Baird is a born hollywood film editor who couldn't pronounce LeVar Burton's name correctly... even after the filming.
TWOK: The film makers were convinced that they had a great villain because Khan had history with Kirk, was well versed in important literature and was played by the talented Ricardo Montalbán.
Nemesis: The film makers were convinced that they had a great clone villain for Picard simply because Shinzon was bald. That's it. They were so convinced that this would be the key selling point that they even retconned Picard's past to accommodate it.
Results?
- TWOK saved the film franchise.
- Nemesis killed the film franchise.
The biggest of all of these points is without a doubt Rick Berman staying on as Producer. Bringing in new talent can be a very good thing, but having Rick choose to remain in charge and replace everyone else only allowed him to bring more of what many considered to be weak contributions to the franchise in full force. Between him firing Ron Jones for doing a fantastic job on the TNG series and picking Stuart Baird over LeVar Burton, it's a miracle he's not looked upon more than he is.
First Contact, the Next Generation crew's most successful film came out when Voyager and Deep Space Nine were still releasing new episodes on Television.
I think your logic on why Star Trek Nemesis failed sounds more like "The sponge got wet because there's moisture in the air". The truth is the sponge got wet because it was being blasted by three hoses all at once (Maid in Manhattan, Harry Potter and The Two Towers).
One problem the Federation wasn't at war with the Romulans Empire and the Romulans probably have bigger problems than the Feds by the end of the film.
AND most people I know who did see it didn't like it, so word-of-mouth was bad.
Did he get to pick? Wasn't Baird thrust upon the production because Paramount contractually owed him a directorial stint on a big movie?
Ugh. That makes the whole idea of Paramount not giving a crap about Star Trek even more plausible. Get a director who doesn't give a crap about it and release it next to one of the most anticipated films of the year. Fantastic.
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