Why so much negativity?

[BillJ]

This is borderline trolling.

You've shown little evidence this is actually the case.

Start digging through the board when various series came out...

 

[Finn]

 

[fireproof78]

STD represents the people who watch twitch streams while old fans prefer books.

Let's see. I don't watch Twitch and currently am reading several series after watching Discovery. Where do I fall in this broad sweeping generalization game?

 

[cooleddie74]

That's not remotely trolling. I was a relatively new poster here when ENT was on the air and I can tell you that negativity is a defining trait of many Trek "fans." They pick their favorite series and films and die on hills they choose just to be as obnoxious and divisive as they can.

 

[Mudd]

I didn't know any Trek fans who hated the TOS-based movies.

Many were disappointed at the first, and nitpicked the others. Different thing entirely.

This is borderline trolling.

No. It's not.

 

[cooleddie74]

And I'm far from the biggest fan of DSC but the idea that the series is geared to lower brow fans with shorter attention spans is a bit insulting. A lot of smart Trekkies watch and like or even love DSC. Not every Trek series is for every fan.

I remember when DS9 was so "un-Treklike" that even I had trouble adjusting to it. But I didn't actively pigeonhole its fans.

 

[SalyutBuran]

It's really not. I've seen it over and over again on various bulletin boards since 1996

That doesn't mean it in any shape or form represents the majority of us.

Thing happens doesn't mean it applies to the majority.

And the fact is you're trying to make an argument this does represent the majority.

and I know it went on before that. Just change the name of the series. DS9 and VOY used to be huge targets on this board. I would know. I was one of the first members who registered here.

This is bad faith straw man argument.

Premise A, people don't like new things.

Premise B, nutrek is new.

Therefore nutrek is only bad because it is new.

This is just poor logic. So poor it borders on trolling.

STD can have objective flaws and be new at the same time.

Shows like the Orville can be dislliked because they are new, and still have a lot of good qualities.

If the newest metallica could not be liked because it is new.

It could also be disliked if it were out of tune and off time.

People like myself have sifting through first season episodes and I can objectively tell you there are scenes where distinctly narcissist/nasty behaviors are present for no reason. There are literally 3 second moments where a character displays conclusive narcissistic behaviors. If I can figure it out with ease as a complete nobody, it means either they can't and are absolute hacks, or equally as alarming they want these characters to have narcissistic traits that cause disgust reactions in the vast majority of people. It's your choice, either they can't do basic editing or they included repulsive content knowing it'd turn off a solid proportion of the population.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I didn't know any Trek fans who hated the TOS-based movies.

Many were disappointed at the first, and nitpicked the others. Different thing entirely.



No. It's not.

We were just glad to have new Trek.

 

[Lord Garth]

That doesn't mean it in any shape or form represents the majority of us.

Thing happens doesn't mean it applies to the majority.

And the fact is you're trying to make an argument this does represent the majority.





This is bad faith straw man argument.

Premise A, people don't like new things.

Premise B, nutrek is new.

Therefore nutrek is only bad because it is new.

This is just poor logic. So poor it borders on trolling.

STD can have objective flaws and be new at the same time.

Shows like the Orville can be dislliked because they are new, and still have a lot of good qualities.

If the newest metallica could not be liked because it is new.

It could also be disliked if it were out of tune and off time.

People like myself have sifting through first season episodes and I can objectively tell you there are scenes where distinctly narcissist/nasty behaviors are present for no reason. There are literally 3 second moments where a character displays conclusive narcissistic behaviors. If I can figure it out with ease as a complete nobody, it means either they can't and are absolute hacks, or equally as alarming they want these characters to have narcissistic traits that cause disgust reactions in the vast majority of people. It's your choice, either they can't do basic editing or they included repulsive content knowing it'd turn off a solid proportion of the population.

No. I was here, you were not. I know what was going here, you don't. The end.

Plus, not once did I say people who don't like New Trek don't like new things. That's your strawman you're using.

I said they don't like new Star Trek while it's coming out. Then, at some point later, say "Maybe that wasn't so bad" or "At least it's not as bad as the Star Trek coming out now!" VOY and ENT are still not favorites, but they've now moved into the "acceptable" column among old-schoolers, while DS9 has been bumped up to "favorite" in a lot of circles.

 

[SalyutBuran]

Let's see. I don't watch Twitch and currently am reading several series after watching Discovery. Where do I fall in this broad sweeping generalization game?

I was being more metaphorical.

As I said McDonalds is nutritional garbage and I love the hell out of it.

You can love things that are not well made, that doesn't mean things are well made just because you like it.

 

[fireproof78]

That doesn't mean it in any shape or form represents the majority of us.

Thing happens doesn't mean it applies to the majority.

And the fact is you're trying to make an argument this does represent the majority.

Nothing we do here represents the majority. It's art, not politics or science.

I was being more metaphorical.

As I said McDonalds is nutritional garbage and I love the hell out of it.

You can love things that are not well made, that doesn't mean things are well made just because you like it.

Broad sweeping generalizations don't make for good faith arguments.

McDonalds is nutritional garbage; and irrelevant to TV show discussion since people can derive value from many different art forms.

 

[Greg Cox]

Looks at date on birth certificate and room full of books.

Let's just say I remember watching STAR TREK on NBC on its original run, am surrounded by books at this very moment, and quite like the new stuff, even though it's very different from the Original Series I grew up on . . . as well it should be given that it's not 1966 anymore.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even TAS had a slightly different feel from TOS and the two series were produced just four years apart. Early holodecks. Aquashuttles. Personal force field belts. Lt. Arex. M'Ress.

 

[Finn]

That doesn't mean it in any shape or form represents the majority of us.

Thing happens doesn't mean it applies to the majority.

And the fact is you're trying to make an argument this does represent the majority.





This is bad faith straw man argument.

Premise A, people don't like new things.

Premise B, nutrek is new.

Therefore nutrek is only bad because it is new.

This is just poor logic. So poor it borders on trolling.

STD can have objective flaws and be new at the same time.

Shows like the Orville can be dislliked because they are new, and still have a lot of good qualities.

If the newest metallica could not be liked because it is new.

It could also be disliked if it were out of tune and off time.

People like myself have sifting through first season episodes and I can objectively tell you there are scenes where distinctly narcissist/nasty behaviors are present for no reason. There are literally 3 second moments where a character displays conclusive narcissistic behaviors. If I can figure it out with ease as a complete nobody, it means either they can't and are absolute hacks, or equally as alarming they want these characters to have narcissistic traits that cause disgust reactions in the vast majority of people. It's your choice, either they can't do basic editing or they included repulsive content knowing it'd turn off a solid proportion of the population.

This is a mischaracterizion of what they are saying.

 

[fireproof78]

Personal force field belts.

These were the best. I wish TOS had utilized them.

Or any other Trek had.

 

[cooleddie74]

Those were more advanced than almost anything used in DSC. Truly a quantum leap in Starfleet tech that just disappeared after TAS went off the air.

 

[SalyutBuran]

I see a lot of negativity towards the new Trek on here and from other Trek fans. I guess I want to ask, why? While the new shows are not TNG and DS9 quality, I do find them better than Voyager and Enterprise. The most hated show seems to be Discovery. I like it. I think Lower Decks is fantastic. I really enjoy Prodigy, eventhough I am way older than the targeted audience. Picard was a little disappointing, but still a very good Trek show. The first season looks like a masterpiece compared to TNG's first season.

A fandom typically hates the current product and will not acknowledge any positives until after it has ended and the next iteration comes along. This happens all the time with Star Trek, fans hated the TOS movies because they were different from TOS itself until TNG came along. Then TNG was hated until DS9 premiered, rinse and repeat with Voyager and Enterprise, which were not accepted in fandom until the Abrams movies came along and were hated, and now there's a whole crop of new shows to be hated by the Fans until such time as they end and something new comes along.

Other fandoms are similar. In Star Wars the prequels were hated until the new Disney films came along, and now they're hated and the prequels have become accepted. Doctor Who fandom actually acknowledges this process as an integral step of enjoying the show, in that a final opinion of an episode is not officially determined until five years after it aired where it can be rewatched and be determined to be not as bad as everyone thought at the time and much better than the "crap which is currently airing."

This is the Way.

No. I was here, you were not. I know what was going here, you don't. The end.

Plus, not once did I say people who don't like New Trek don't like new things. That's your strawman you're using.

I said they don't like new Star Trek while it's coming out. Then, at some point later, say "Maybe that wasn't so bad" or "At least it's not as bad as the Star Trek coming out now!" VOY and ENT are still not a favorite, but it's now moved in the "acceptable" column among old-schoolers, while DS9 has been bumped up to "favorite" in a lot of circles.

You were responding to what was listed above.

This was in repsonse to why the show has so much negativity.

Your answer implies that you were talking about the most likely narrative.

 

[fireproof78]

Fans hate what is different, at least at first I've watched in in Star Wars, in Stargate and many other properties besides Star Trek. It's not always a rational experience, but an uncertainty that this new idea in a familiar property is a threat in some way. It's completely irrational but very human.

The best example is the Star Wars prequels. The hatred was so bad that Lucas eventually decided to sell the company rather than deal with fans being unsatisfied. And now the prequels get treated as excellent work, ignoring the pure garbage that Lucas was deried for creating. Fan love is superficial, at best.

 

[ELCHawk]

I find it insulting that posters say Discovery is for low brow viewers. That is shallow, dumb, and ignorant. I am well educated and halfway smart. I enjoy Discovery and all NuTrek. At 46, I consider myself lucky there is so much quality Trek right now. Like I said, NuTrek is not DS9 or TNG quality, but still pretty good. Better than Voyager and Enterprise.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This is borderline trolling.

This is just poor logic. So poor it borders on trolling.

Neither of those posts were trolling, borderline or otherwise. You know what is? Accusing anyone with an opinion that differs from yours of trolling.