Why Section 31 goes into hiding

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Yistaan, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because they wanted it that way as part of this season's story arc which required them to have their own ship. And also as a way to give Michelle Yeoh her own series. And they probably already have ideas as to how it goes underground. We will have to wait and see if it's clumsy or not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  2. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kurtzman basically said as much.
     
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  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I highly doubt anyone knew what the black badges meant until that bonus scene introducing Leland was done up last year. Even then, they seem to have been forgotten about this season, given Tyler even says when he's first brought aboard Section 31's ship "I've heard of personnel with black badges, but I've never met any." It's really stretching it that in his time as Disco's chief of security, he never met the guys with black badges.

    For that, matter, those guys completely disappeared after their one scene, and even then it's not clear why they were even on the ship. They clearly weren't guarding the spore drive, but there doesn't appear to be anything else of any importance on the ship. Then there's this season, why would Section 31 have to go through the whole song and dance of assigning Tyler to Disco as their liaison officer when they already have two officers assigned to the ship? And why hasn't Tyler been hanging with them since coming on board? For that matter, when Georgiou was brought on board, why didn't she have them verify their identity, or why didn't Pike check with them as opposed to getting in contact with Leland?
     
  4. X24actor

    X24actor Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Section 31 = Torchwood
     
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  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Part of me wonders if the plan A for season one was to reveal Lorca as Section 31 rather than a mirror duplicate. I recall Bryan Fuller saying Discovery's number 1031 meant something.

    Of course, that was two or three showrunners ago, now.
     
  6. Blue Squadron

    Blue Squadron Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Yes, the high turnover of senior production staff off-screen will inevitably have had an impact on story-arc and emphasis on-screen. I guess we'll never really know *exactly* what shifted but undoubtedly there will have been at the very least evolutionary changes. Hopefully things will be a bit more stable for a while!

    Nevertheless, there was a clear intent to indicate the significance of the "black badges" as being somehow different to the rest of Starfleet. To call it out in the dialogue felt a bit unnecessarily over-done at the time and I agree that it's a bit odd that the two door-guards then disappeared never to be mentioned again. At the very simplest, I guess it was a way of further signalling to the broader audience that Disco was meant to be experimental and top-secret. Maybe they left the ship shortly thereafter...? (!).

    Equally, Tyler's line about the black badges is also nothing more than another clunky script call-out moment for the general non-fan audience.

    The whole Section 31 thing could easily become waaaay over-played. In fact, for me, it's already beginning to feel a bit like that. In the same way that there came a point where TNG and Boy really needed to move away from the Borg as their recurring plot device, I already feel that DSC needs to move away from Section 31. This sort of thing should be used sparingly and carefully in Trek. I accept that there's clearly and integral arc for this season but hopefully they will then move on and accept that they are done with it, at least for a while!

    I'm not sure that I'm all that interested in a Georgiou / Section 31 / Starfleet Black Ops spin-off for a whole series rather than as just an occasional recurring device within the main series -- but I appreciate that there are many who do love this idea. For me it's wandering just a bit TOO far from what Trek should be. I accept YMMV...
     
  7. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    He said it was a reference to Halloween and it was a clue to when it was set; nothing to do with it being related to S31.
     
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  8. Ravenswood

    Ravenswood Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Who's to say a secret organisation couldn't be outed but then later supressed and forgotten again? The Vehmic Courts were a terrifying secret shadow government that terrorised medieval Germany, but eventually one of the 15th century Holy Roman Emperors, the official government, became a member and made use of them. Later on they were supressed in the 17th century, but existed (as far as anyone knows) into the 19th century, and I bet most of us never heard of them, despite the fact the were about a nefarious and mysterious of Trek's Section 31. People's memory is short.
     
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  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It might be as simple as forces of idealism within the Federation tried to decommission it and they pretended to decommission.

    I would agree S31 should have been a little bit less well known in DSC.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then again, DSC could be the one time when it is actually prominent, as the Klingon war clearly is a deviation from the norm for the Federation.

    Back in "Context is for Kings" when the black badges were spotted aboard the ship, there was no spore drive yet. There was just this harebrained experiment Stamets was fumbling with. But Saru told the ship was exceptionally configured for running a great many experiments in parallel. SF Intel and its S31 would have an interest in keeping secret the one experiment that succeeds - and this would mean keeping it secret from the other researchers, too. Once Stamets got the spore drive working, and the other researchers got the boot, there'd be no practical relevance to having guards aboard, as the ship would become its own partitioned-off "safe room" for keeping the one secret.

    Which would work nicely with Burnham being in the know (there more or less from the start), and Tyler not (he arrives in "Choose Your Pain" where the ship's crew supposedly is pared down to 130-something and the ship has a track record of using the drive operationally in the war).

    I don't find the "overuse" of this plot element annoying. DSC is about season-long plots where elements stay on the foreground for fifteen episodes or so. But S2 could already be where the story on S31 concludes, one way or another... Although I wouldn't mind if it only disappeared at the end of S3 or perhaps reappeared in S5.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  11. Hey Missy

    Hey Missy Captain Captain

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    Not only are they in every single episode, they're also laughably incompetent. Leland is a buffoon.
     
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  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it's a bunch of backstabbers: these folks seem to do very well indeed in preventing each other from getting anything done.

    Which may well be the best way to protect the interests of the UFP for all we know. :devil:

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  13. jfordny

    jfordny Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Yes, if the survival of the Federation depends on an idiot like Leland and a sociopath with her own agenda like Georgiou, the Federation is in deep trouble.
     
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  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It also could be a machination of Georgiu that brought it into the shadows.

    It makes a lot of sense from her worldview. Section 31 is not only a potential seat of unchecked power for her, it's something that can't coexist with the idealism of this universe. She can't do anything about the idealism, but maybe she can hide her seat of power from the idealism.
     
  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Leland is a plot device. An obstacle for Georgiou to overcome in preparation for her own show.
     
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  16. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've had this sneaking suspicion since the beginning that Tilly is Section 31. I find it strange that they'd room a traitor with a cadet. Maybe it'll be the Lorca reveal of this season.

    I suspect now that Brainiac from the future is going to be the downfall of Section 31. It's an invasive computer program that'll take over Control, and, after narrow escape, 31's new mandate will be to do without technology. Sloan said that there is no 31 HQ – it's all in their heads – and maybe this is why.

    I don't know if the 31 series will make it to air. So far, 31 has been ret-con, cheesy, and black hat. What's to look forward to?
     
  17. cgervasi

    cgervasi Commander Red Shirt

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    Maybe Sarek got Section 31 disbanded, but many of its agents carried on its work underground.
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I doubt Section 31 will be pushed underground this season of Disco, especially if they have their own spin-off in the works.

    ...unless this is the Captain America: Winter Soldier and the S31 series is Agents of SHIELD.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    What's so strange? They're basically equal rank in the sense that Michael was stripped of rank and Tilly hadn't yet earned one.
    It's been greenlit, episodes are written and Michelle Yeoh is signed on to do it. Barring something like everyone suddenly stops watching Disco altogether and no one watches the Picard show at all, the Section 31 show will make it to air.
     
  20. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Lorca roomed Prime Burnham with Prime Captain Killy. Remember that her MU counterpart was in high regard for her ruthlessness, which was why she was chosen by Lorca to be on his ship in the first place.