Why no rock music in Star Trek?

[ZapBrannigan]

The question of why pop music is nearly absent from Star Trek was taken up by soundtrack producer Lukas Kendall. Here's the relevant excerpt from his (good) long essay:

http://trekmovie.com/2015/01/11/editorial-the-future-of-star-trek-its-the-story-stupid/

Unlike the Marvel universe—which takes place in contemporary reality—Star Trek takes place in the future. And not just an abstract future, but a specific vision of the future from fifty years in the past. It’s not only a period piece, but a parallel universe—a “double remove.”

Before man landed on the moon, manned space travel was plausible. Roddenberry intended the bridge of the Enterprise to be completely believable. (Next to The Beverly Hillbillies, he was doing Chekhov—that’s with an h.) But we now know that (Interstellar and Avatar aside) interplanetary space travel is not realistic, or certainly not happening any time soon.

As a result, Star Trek is irrevocably dated. What was meant to be the actual future has become a fantasy future—but it’s not allowed to acknowledge it. Star Wars is unashamed space fantasy, set in a make-believe galaxy, but Star Trek is supposed to be real. (I guess I missed the Eugenics Wars.) Ever wonder why in Star Trek they only listen to classical music, or sometimes jazz? Hearing anything recorded after 1964 would puncture the reality (except for time travel stories). This is the same reason why The West Wing never referenced a president after Kennedy.

 

[uniderth]

What would be awesome is have some characters listening to Information Society's "What's on Your Mind"

 

[mos6507]

Ever wonder why in Star Trek they only listen to classical music, or sometimes jazz? Hearing anything recorded after 1964 would puncture the reality (except for time travel stories).

I do buy into the idea that Trek is now firmly retro-futuristic in nature and attempts to "modernize" (Kelvin/Discovery) have sort of ruined it, but not sure I buy the time-capsule aspect when it comes to music.

In Trek IV you get the scene on the bus with (then contemporary) punk/hardcore music. In First Contact you get Magic Carpet Ride (OK, that was contemporary within the original airdates of TOS).

My feeling is the real reason there's a lack of rock/pop in Trek isn't so much to root it in the past as much as it's to make the people of the future appear cultured and intellectual. Jazz and classical are both genres for the intelligentsia. They're quiet genres to put into the background while everyone debates philosophy. (New age would work too if they wanted to incorporate it.) This is also why so many Star Trek episode titles refer to classic literature.

For the most part, the society portrayed in Star Trek is fairly monochromatic. Evolved society represents a sort of calm demeanor. People are not going to be head-banging to Metallica or disco dancing. This is part and parcel of why Trek developed a nerdy following and it's why the use of the Beastie Boys in Kelvin didn't work.

 

[Qonundrum]

Except for maybe the Beatles, I doubt most popular music will be remembered 200 years from now.

Who?

No, not "The Who". "The Buggles".

Found an example here, next to the diaries of someone named "Roy Hinkley"...

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[Qonundrum]

Since a lot of main characters seem to be interested in music and culture from the past, it strikes me that late 20th century rock music seem to be totally abandoned when it comes to what the Star Trek generations people are listening to.

Probably because the show was made in the same century and would be seen too contemporary for its own good.

The only reference to late 20th culture and music in TOS are those space hippies who show up in the episode "The way To Eden". Plus the fact that Chekov looked like Davy Jones of The Monkees. But nothing more.

I doubt the Hippies would have used electronic instruments... I'd hope! So theirs would sound 1960s either way.

In TNG, Riker enjoys playing trombone in some 20th century jazz club on the holodeck. But it seems to be in an environment from the 1940:s or 1950:s, before rock music started. Otherwise it's classical music for Picard, Data and the others. One exception is Zefram Cocrane in "First Contact" but his appearance wasn't in the 24th century.
And yes, we have that country singer who had been frozen and brought back to life on the Enterprise. But he was from back then, not a 24th century person.

Yeah, "Magic Carpet Ride". Steppenwolf had some great hits but they sure did love to promote illicit drug use in some of their songs. A population of junkies solves all problems, right? But by the 1990s, most thingies from the 1960s were used as nostalgia with the meanings tossed out. Amusingly, some pop singers of the 1990s were saying that. Even 80s but only the geek groups pointed out the obvious back then...

In DS9, the closest we get when it comes to 20th century music is Vic Fontaine. But he's doing Sinatra style music and his holodeck program is a music club in 1962, the year before The Beatles gave rock music a new boost.

Nice touch. I still remember the James Bond flick where Bond states he thought the only good way to listen to the Beatles was with earmuffs on... Bond, a contemporary pop figure complaining about... contemporary pop figures. Who could hate it?

In Voyager, we have Harry Kim who plays classical music on his clarinet. We do have Tom paris who claims to be a fan of 20th century North American culture, specifically the latter half of that century's pop culture. But no rock music in any Paris-created holodeck things, not even an Elvis song, despite his interest in old cars from that era.

Pretty much. It's focused and only on certain, most-recognizable acts instead of having even a small amount of educational intrigue in that regard.

So why no rock music in Star Trek? Has that music such a bad reputation in the 24th century Federation that it's totally forbidden? Or are all Star Trek producers boring old woodblocks who don't appreciate rock music in any form?

From a production standpoint, guessing and designing the future doesn't always work or end up dating well. It's better than just setting everything in a contemporary setting as that'll get worse far faster. It'd arguably be worse for music. But even Buck Rogers from 1979 copped "Odyssey" as an example of 25th century music and only until recently I didn't know that song was a 1970s disco hit as opposed to music specially crafted FOR the show to suggest what 25th century music might be like ("built on disco" as oppose to "disco" as the "Odyssey" song had some chords that felt otherworldly or out of its time.) Keep in mind, that overly long roller skating piece in one of the 600 episodes where Ardala keeps frothing over and chasing him made a flimsy attempt as well. Problem was, skating was a very 1979 pop culture thing to do. They didn't try very hard... apart from putting heavy light cables over the hapless dancers, just where did they put the batteries to keep those things lit as this was LONG before LED lights could have zillions of them lit by one itty bitty 9V battery... each incandescent bulb was 1 or 2 watts, easily... at least military and civilian style didn't match their entertainment industry being lit up like a Christmas tree...

 

[lurok]

The giants Beethoven. Mozart. Snoop Dogg. G'zTll of Borus'Al [/treklist]

"I like the beats and shouting"

 

[Ovation]

Jazz and classical are both genres for the intelligentsia. They're quiet genres to put into the background while everyone debates philosophy.

Your exposure to both classical and jazz is clearly very limited.

the use of the Beastie Boys in Kelvin didn't work.

It worked just fine and was a refreshing reminder that Trek was no longer trapped in the sonic wallpaper of the Berman era.

 

[Greg Cox]

The Beastie Boys worked for me--and I barely know who they are.

STAR TREK needed a jolt of rock-n-roll at that point, to give it a bit more youthful energy.

As opposed to, yes, debating philosophy while listening to classical music. It's possible to get a little too snobbishly highbrow and "intellectual" sometimes . . . even on STAR TREK.

 

[Coyote Annabis]

You know how they say that almost everything sent over the airwaves on Earth is floating through space?

Imagine some alien listening post hundreds of light-years away picking up an earth radio signal from the late 20th - early 21st century.

A radio signal from a 2000's rock station drifts past a listening station near Qo'nos:

"Commander, we're picking up some sort of audio signal. Heavily degraded, it appears to have been sent from earth, approximately 400 years ago. I've managed to isolate a clear segment"
"Put it on the comlink"
"EXIT LIGHT.... ENTER NIIIIGHT... TAAAAKE MY HAND"
"..."
"Commander?"
" FIND ME MORE OF THIS!"

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, the Beastie Boys worked great. I also thought the Wyclef Jean was excellent in DISCO.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You know how they say that almost everything sent over the airwaves on Earth is floating through space?

Imagine some alien listening post hundreds of light-years away picking up an earth radio signal from the late 20th - early 21st century.

A radio signal from a 2000's rock station drifts past a listening station near Qo'nos:

"Commander, we're picking up some sort of audio signal. Heavily degraded, it appears to have been sent from earth, approximately 400 years ago. I've managed to isolate a clear segment"
"Put it on the comlink"
"EXIT LIGHT.... ENTER NIIIIGHT... TAAAAKE MY HAND"
"..."
"Commander?"
" FIND ME MORE OF THIS!"

Nah, it would go like this
"Commander, we're picking up some sort of audio signal. Heavily degraded, it appears to have been sent from earth, approximately 400 years ago. I've managed to isolate a clear segment"
"Put it on the comlink"

Spoiler: You know what's coming

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"Every damn time!!!!!!!

 

[Greg Cox]

Nice touch. I still remember the James Bond flick where Bond states he thought the only good way to listen to the Beatles was with earmuffs on... Bond, a contemporary pop figure complaining about... contemporary pop figures. Who could hate it?

Honestly, that line in Dr. No has not aged well. Bond ends up coming off as kinda square and hopelessly unhip, which was probably not the intent. Whoever wrote that line clearly thought that the Beatles were strictly for teenyboppers.

Oops.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Honestly, that line in Dr. No has not aged well. Bond ends up coming off as kinda square and hopelessly unhip, which was probably not the intent. Whoever wrote that line clearly thought that the Beatles were strictly for teenyboppers.

Oops.

Actually, it's from Goldfinger, but who's keeping track?

I agree about the line, though.

 

[Paul Weaver]

They should try to get The Firm's 1987 masterpiece in.

The Beastie Boys worked for me--and I barely know who they are.

Only time I've heard of them outside Trek is "Hey Bender gonna make some noise with your hard drive scratched by the beastie boys"

 

[thribs]

Sure their history is different from 1966 onwards with the different wars and Aegus etc. But some of the music can still be the same.

 

[Greg Cox]

Actually, it's from Goldfinger, but who's keeping track?

I agree about the line, though.

Oops. Guess I should have looked it up.

I actually saw the first three Bond movies for the first time at a glorious triple feature at the Mid-Way Drive-In back in the sixties. I'm going to claim that's why I mixed up which one had the Beatles line.

 

[1001001]

Only time I've heard of them outside Trek is "Hey Bender gonna make some noise with your hard drive scratched by the beastie boys"

Come on, man!

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[ZapBrannigan]

I love Goldfinger. Corporal Captain beat me to it. But you have to put Bond's comment in perspective. By mid-1964 when the Shirley Eaton bedroom scene was probably filmed, a daughter-less man in his thirties would have heard only a few hit singles. It was more than reasonable for an adult with already-formed tastes to dislike the Beatles.

I would go on to say it's still reasonable, with the Beatles whole output on record, to like a lot of other music better. The Beatles somehow got into the magical category our culture has for artists who are so revered that anyone brave enough not to love them gets savaged. Anything less than wild praise is taken as an attack. And you've got to hand it to them: there aren't too many straight white males in that category. I think it's just them and Stephen Hawking.

 

[Greg Cox]

I love Goldfinger. Corporal Captain beat me to it. But you have to put Bond's comment in perspective. By mid-1964 when the Shirley Eaton bedroom scene was probably filmed, a daughter-less man in his thirties would have heard only a few hit singles. It was more than reasonable for an adult with already-formed tastes to dislike the Beatles.

Oh, definitely. Back then, it was comparable to getting a cheap laugh by mentioning some silly boy band.

It's only with the passage of time that the line now makes Bond seem somewhat less cool.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh, definitely. Back then, it was comparable to getting a cheap laugh by mentioning some silly boy band.

It's only with the passage of time that the line now makes Bond seem somewhat less cool.

The next Bond will probably think of the Beatles as a band his parents liked.