I thought the Orville was like when Seth McFarlane got tired of incest and racist jokes on his ripoff-of-the-Simpsons series of cartoons, and wanted to go back to doing Trek so made his own ripoff of that too.
A creative cornucopia, that man.
Why no rock music in Star Trek?
- Thread starter Lynx
- Start date
A creative cornucopia, that man.
I'm confused. Just because something is "lowbrow," why does that automatically make it ephemeral?
Last I checked, people are still reading and performing Shakespeare.
Last I checked, people are still reading and performing Shakespeare.
Modern "folk" music (which isn't real folk music, in the sense of "Old Joe Clark" or "The Ballad of Casey Jones," because it was formally composed and formally published, by a known composer and lyricist, with little or no long-term evolution) tends to be written as an act of protest against some systemic injustice. A great deal of other music is written to make money (not necessarily motivated by base greed, though; Beethoven and Mozart had to make a living).
Rock music tends to be motivated by either protest or economics. Or both.
In a society where systemic injustices are vanishingly rare, there is little to protest. In an economy based on abundance, rather than scarcity, one does not need to make a living. And in a society that frowns on base greed, music motivated solely by desire for fame and fortune is probably not very popular. Except maybe with the Ferengi.
Very likely, the music being created new in the Federation tends to be music created primarily for the love of music itself.
Rock music tends to be motivated by either protest or economics. Or both.
In a society where systemic injustices are vanishingly rare, there is little to protest. In an economy based on abundance, rather than scarcity, one does not need to make a living. And in a society that frowns on base greed, music motivated solely by desire for fame and fortune is probably not very popular. Except maybe with the Ferengi.
Very likely, the music being created new in the Federation tends to be music created primarily for the love of music itself.
^ Can't argue with that.
There's something else too. Maybe music comes and goes into and out of popularity. Pretty soon it'll be the '20s again. Maybe jazz will make a comeback into the Top 40 (probably not, but stranger things have happened).
If that's the case, maybe TNG/DS9/VOY happened to catch music when rock was out-of-the-loop (again) before it cycled back in. I'm reaching and I know it... but maybe that's how cycles will work in the future when they start dealing with centuries instead of just decades.
There's something else too. Maybe music comes and goes into and out of popularity. Pretty soon it'll be the '20s again. Maybe jazz will make a comeback into the Top 40 (probably not, but stranger things have happened).
If that's the case, maybe TNG/DS9/VOY happened to catch music when rock was out-of-the-loop (again) before it cycled back in. I'm reaching and I know it... but maybe that's how cycles will work in the future when they start dealing with centuries instead of just decades.
Licensing copyrighted music is expensive. And it only lasts for a limited time: the DVDs of WKRP in Cincinatti had all the music removed or changed because the license had expired. In fact, that change happened while the show was still in syndication.
And as anyone who remembers Buck Rogers with Gil Gerard will tell you, original music on a tv budget that is supposed to sound like rock comes off cheesy and lame. Imagine a parody of disco done by someone who didn't understand disco to begin with.
Hardly surprising then that Star Trek tends towards music that is in the Public Domain.
Still, it did strike me as odd tgat nobody ever even talked about it.
I mean, couldn't Geordi have been in the middle of telling Data about how his sister just got him to listen to The Wall, Sgt Peppers, or Pet Sounds and how he now thought Data should listen to it?
I mean, it's hard to tell which artists from the last ten years are going to be remembered in 20, but by 1985 wasn't the jury in on The Beatles, Eric Clapton, and Jimi Hendricks? Even if you don't like them, you recognize they were influential.
And as anyone who remembers Buck Rogers with Gil Gerard will tell you, original music on a tv budget that is supposed to sound like rock comes off cheesy and lame. Imagine a parody of disco done by someone who didn't understand disco to begin with.
Hardly surprising then that Star Trek tends towards music that is in the Public Domain.
Still, it did strike me as odd tgat nobody ever even talked about it.
I mean, couldn't Geordi have been in the middle of telling Data about how his sister just got him to listen to The Wall, Sgt Peppers, or Pet Sounds and how he now thought Data should listen to it?
I mean, it's hard to tell which artists from the last ten years are going to be remembered in 20, but by 1985 wasn't the jury in on The Beatles, Eric Clapton, and Jimi Hendricks? Even if you don't like them, you recognize they were influential.
Once Shout Factory took over the DVD license on WKRP, they did their best to secure licenses to include as much of the original music as possible. Hopefully they were successful in the cases where a joke depended upon a particular song, and their failures were in the cases where it didn't really make a difference in the storyline.
Star Trek up to the Kelvinverse era held to a central conceit - that "classical" and jazz music would in the future be universally acknowledged as THE most important cultural remnant of the Bad Old Days.
Considering the importance placed on those music types in classical liberal arts education, it makes sense that it would end up being featured so prominently in a show that purports to be influenced by utopian ideals.
Thankfully, JJ Abrams reminded us that in the TOS era, people hadn't forgotten the joys of rock music.
Considering the importance placed on those music types in classical liberal arts education, it makes sense that it would end up being featured so prominently in a show that purports to be influenced by utopian ideals.
Thankfully, JJ Abrams reminded us that in the TOS era, people hadn't forgotten the joys of rock music.
You mentioned Lady Gaga of all people!
Oh, dear! Now I have to re-read "The Black Shore" AGAIN to get my
respect for you back.
I mean, that talent-less woman will be totally forgotten in 5 years.
You could at least have mentioned Janis Joplin instead. Almost 50 years since her tragic death and people still like her, even kids of today.
WHITE kids, yes: I doubt that kids of color care about Janis Joplin (and maybe not even white kids.)
BTW, there are other current female musicians other than Lady Gaga out there, as shown by the ladies on this list:
10 Women Pulling Rock 'N' Roll Into The 21st Century
Last edited:
It would make sense to have the crew listening to Andorian Rock or some other alien stuff. These are humans brought up in a diverse xenoculture.
Last edited:
Or soca, reggae or Indian music
Last edited:
Well, then I have to mention Aretha Franklin and Tina Turner. Great singers both of them.
As for your list, I haven't listened to any of them yet, I find music rather boring these days. Too adapted, too over-produced and without the rock feeling. Give me a new Guns n Roses any day!
Or at least a new Rolling Stones.
But no one is happier than me if something new and good shows up.
Your choice to be that obdurate, Lynx: but promise me something (if you can): DON'T you or anybody else continue to be complaining about how 'there's no good rock and roll out there' and 'everything is just pop.' Expecting rock music to sound like it used to 'just because' is ridiculous to the extreme; it still exists, it's still here, and it's just as good as the rock of the '60's, '70's, '80's, and '90's.
Classical and jazz had a proven track record of lasting. Therefore they were likely to last into the future too. That's why they were chosen. Ideally, new styles we can't dream of would have come along. They can't invent those styles, so they fall back on what might last till then, from the past.
---------------------
By now, rock music has lasted a fair length of time, but that only makes it more susceptible to becoming too worn out a genre to continue on indefinitely.
--------------------------
Most rock/pop is pretty lightweight and ephemeral. That's the point of so much of it... to be new and fresh and temporary, and replaced with new stuff when we get tired of it. It's mostly cranked out as product.
===========
A lot of the best that should last, won't. There will just be SO much rock and pop. But I really think new styles will happen, and styles from now will be hard to "hear" for them in the future.
---------------------
By now, rock music has lasted a fair length of time, but that only makes it more susceptible to becoming too worn out a genre to continue on indefinitely.
--------------------------
Most rock/pop is pretty lightweight and ephemeral. That's the point of so much of it... to be new and fresh and temporary, and replaced with new stuff when we get tired of it. It's mostly cranked out as product.
===========
A lot of the best that should last, won't. There will just be SO much rock and pop. But I really think new styles will happen, and styles from now will be hard to "hear" for them in the future.
