Luke training a girl made it into TLJ.
Why is toxic fandom destroying everything?
- Thread starter Sgt. Sacrament
- Start date
Yeah, it was up to Gene himself to make it shit!
The truth is that a most of fan fiction and most fan ideas in general are pretty shitty. They also tend to change the tone of the original work and write stories that fans wish or fantasize about rather than stories that challenge the reader.
I do wonder if any of those posters who started commenting in this forum for the first time because of this thread ever stayed around to chat about other things?
I do wonder if any of those posters who started commenting in this forum for the first time because of this thread ever stayed around to chat about other things?
Yup. Empire Strikes Back was too dark, The Motion Picture disrespectful, etc.
Fans are not always the best metric for good stories and shouldn't run anything.
It's also silly to speak of "fans" as some kind of monolithic block who all have the same taste and views. Like, look around, Trek fans can't even agree on who the best captain is.
The number of supposed Star Wars fans that insist that the Sequel Trilogy should have been an adaptation of the old Thrawn novels, and now that insist that the upcoming Filloni movie will be exactly that is all the proof I ever needed that fandoms as a whole have terrible instincts for what makes a good story.
And some don't even grasp the concept that there is no such thing, beyond mere subjective personal preferences.
I don't find that surprising at all, considering that trilogy was the only thing anybody had in terms of a concept of a continuation. So, if you take the decades people have waited for a continuation of the saga to be announced, it's natural that there were expectations of that nature. Say what you will about the Thrawn trilogy, but it at least had unique characters that weren't merely copies of what came before it, and it attempted to move the story forward.
Oh I didn't say it was surprising, just that it's a terrible idea. Indeed the predictability of a fandom to both produce and evangelise about such terrible ideas is all the more reason to largely disregard it entirely.
I'd guess you would find licensed fiction from movies & TV series sharing similar problems, with some writers also injecting their own agendas into concepts that did not contain and/or go in the direction of the writer's work.
Agreed.
Terrible or not, because of the long wait, there were some expectations. I think it's just normal human nature given that the trilogy was a first glimpse into what could have been. And for that reason, it left an impression on people. You can't fault people for that.
I don't fault people for immediate reactions. I fault them far more for lack of self-analysis and willingness to consider alternatives to their perceived expectations. And I'm just as guilty and have revisited TNG and TMP because my initial reaction was not favorable because it didn't meet expectations.
Same with ST 09, and I though Simon Pegg and Zachary Quinto were terrible casting choices.
Same with so many other things. The idea that the first expectation should always dictate business decisions is one I question heavily. I question fan expectations, including my own, even more heavily because fans are not the only members of the audience.
Same with ST 09, and I though Simon Pegg and Zachary Quinto were terrible casting choices.
Same with so many other things. The idea that the first expectation should always dictate business decisions is one I question heavily. I question fan expectations, including my own, even more heavily because fans are not the only members of the audience.
You'd think after the long wait between the OT and the PT, with the end product definitely not being what people expected, that basic pattern recognition would have clicked into place. So yes, I really can fault them for that. Dullness of imagination should not be encouraged.
And yet, Ronald D Moore is my favorite Star Trek writer.
Especially when I saw people after the PT calling for Lucas to sell to someone else, like Disney.
Also, Natalie Portman's comment see appropos: Natalie Portman has expressed her disappointment with the trilogy's negative reception, saying that "When something has that much anticipation it can almost only disappoint."
Source.
^ That's true, and I think it's fair to say that I think the ST, with the long wait that it had, there was no way it wasn't going to be a disappointment. It had the crushing weight of anticipation that didn't do it any favours.
I personally enjoyed it and had a great time with my dad with TFA. TLJ was interesting, if challenging, and I've soured on Episode 9 over time.
Personally, I kind of soured on a lot of EU stuff because of fan expectations and demands to know everything in the old fan club. "Did you see in this book how it completely contradicts how the Force works? You haven't! Well, what kind of fan are you!?"
Yeah, I grew tired of it with the PT and EU and so I let my anticipation decrease because I really found the fan response over the top at times, especially with Thrawn. Thrawn dying was well done because he was such an meticulous character that Zahn did a good job from that.
But, I personally do not want the Thrawn trilogy in any live action adaptation. I may not agree with the ST, but going to the EU for a straight adaptation was never on my radar, for a huge host of reasons.
Well it's true, do you remember how the "fans" were against Guardians of the Galaxy in 2014?
I guess what I meant was that it was never going to please everybody given how everybody has different ideas of what it should be, and also due to the anticipation, which is true with any big franchise sequels that follow-on decades later. Time isn't always favourable for these things.
Eh, I don't even really follow SW much these days, so I don't know the extent of what they've used in their TV shows, but I do find it interesting that they've only just started to recently. Seems like Disney trying to have their cake and eat it too.
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