I was thinking the same thing! "Scorpion" is popular amongst most trek fans and is often an example of a Voyager Borg episode before they "messed them up".
Why is the Trek community so negative about Voyager?
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I was thinking the same thing! "Scorpion" is popular amongst most trek fans and is often an example of a Voyager Borg episode before they "messed them up".
Char Aznable
Lieutenant Commander
People didn't give a shit about an enemy that could kick the Borg's ass. I recall Species 8472 was generally well liked. A villain that could kick the Borg's ass meant we may end up getting a potential new threat. One that could have eventually threatened the alpha quadrent and made an epic movie about.
But no. It had to be VOY . . .
But no. It had to be VOY . . .
No. You are wrong, Anwar. That's all there is to it. I don't feel this way, and you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone on this BBS who does.
Char Aznable
Lieutenant Commander
In fact, as I recall, Scorpion made a lot of people react with, "WOW! VOY's finally getting its shit together!" And then eventually destroyed all that built up good will. No doubt caused by viscious old DS9 fans sabataaging the scripts and bribing UPN to keep poor Bermaga down . . . 
Yeah, it sure was fun to be part of the secretive Niner hatedom back in the 90s, we had loads of fun plotting Voyager's doom by badmouthing it on internet message-boards.No doubt caused by viscious old DS9 fans sabataaging the scripts and bribing UPN to keep poor Bermaga down . . .
Wait, I was 11 when Scorpion aired and I had no idea what the internet was back then. I couldn't possibly have been one of the people saying insane things back then.
Yes, it is.
Wow. What? You see no difference between 7,000,000 and 1? Or an entire planet and a few people? Just, wow.
A person who has no feeling for an individual, can have no empathy for the multitude.
Death is always a tragedy, wheither it is one or millions.
Brit
No, the Hirogen story culminates in s7's "Flesh & Blood".
One of the biggest(and not the only) complaints about Voyager's first two season was that it was way too long to get through Kazon space. I've heard that complaint from numerous fans at Cons even before I ever became a member of any Trek chat board. It was the main reason why the production staff scaled back the use and development of the aliens in later seasons. It's also why they killed off Seska.
I think the citizens of New York City proved that wrong after 9/11.
Except that Lessing never thought it would really happen. He accuses them of setting up a good cop/bad cop maneuver, and Chakotay proves him right by arriving before the rift opened. If lying to a prisoner is torture, most police officers should be prosecuted.
No exaggeration, the audience wanted Borg who were completely invincible. They were totally invincible in TNG and it was solely through plot contrivance that they won. The idea that the Borg could ever be damaged by a normal weapon was totally incomprehensible to the audience.
When TNG did it in FC, no one cared. When VOY did it, everyone complained. Fact.
Scorpion is considered the beginning of the "Voyager Borg", the beginning of their fall and "Not invincible" status. It didn't matter that the 8472 were strong enough to do it, the fact that such a thing existed and in VOY of all shows was nothing but agony for the audience.
Any threats in VOY had to be resolved in VOY, otherwise it would just be lazy. Also, the 8472 could hardly ever be used because of how expensive they were. VOY didn't have the means of some kind of Galactic Epic since they were all on their own without any civilization of their own to call upon. If you expected something Epic then you deserved to be disappointed.
Of course, if VOY kept it minimalist and didn't even hint at anything epic then the complaints would just be that things were too minimalist.
...but that wasn't true.
Janeway & Chakotay had made no arrangement to play good cop/bad cop. Chakotay ran in and saved him because Janeway was going off the rails. We weren't even sure if Chakotay would save him in time. Lessing would have been dead because he thought they were playing a game and never would have talked. So yes, that would be extreme torture.
I thought we were debating if it was considered torture or not?
However yes, I agree.
It's more dramatic not knowing who was right.
I was referring to the Hirogen arc in the fourth season, which lasts about six episodes (the Hirogen don't appear in "Retrospect," but the Voyager crew mention buying weapons in order to defend themselves from them) and culminates in "The Killing Game."
As for the return of the Hirogen three seasons later in "Flesh and Blood," as I indicated in a previous post, it doesn't make a lick of sense. The Hirogen re-appear (with Voyager holotechnology in hand) more than 35,000 light years beyond their last known position. They can't have received the information about the holotechnology from their communications network ("Message in a Bottle," "Hunters") because it was destroyed in "Hunters," before Janeway gave them the technology in "The Killing Game."
So, somehow the Hirogen were able to cross half the Delta Quadrant, build a massive holodeck onboard an immobile and specially designed space station (which seems unnecessarily large, considering what we know about holotechnology from previous episodes), and play their holographic games for a significant time before Voyager (which had been on the move most of this time) stumbled across them. Yeah, right.
It's too bad, because it undermines one of the better episodes of season seven, which for once answers lingering questions about Janeway's decision at the end of "The Killing Game," something this series (in the tradition of the episodic, almost anthology-like storytelling of TOS and TNG before it) would rarely do.
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