Why is Star trek nerdy but Star wars Cool?

[Butters]

I'm highly diverted that people here think ST is cerebral. It's entertainment. It has schmaltz in every second episode, gung-ho fisticuffs in two out of three episodes, laughably impossible 'science' and very pretty uniforms, considering what the laundry bill must be like.

I agree. Star Trek isn't cerebral, but the nerdiest of fans are quite insistant that it is and can actually be quite offensive toward non-fans insinuating that the masses are somehow inferior because they don't 'get' it. Trek science is as much fantasy as star wars, if not more so because of the explanations are inconsistent nonsense.

Then theres the media coverage of the fans, wearing uniforms to work, klingon language, the conventions etc. Some fans found their way on to the TV and told the world that trek was so much more than a TV show, it was a way of life. Some turned their homes in to starships. Some, as I've read on here, pluck up the courage to ask out that special lady and then spend the date watching Star Trek, and with their mates there too I might add. WTF?

Star Wars on the otherhand has a reliable base of fans who grew up with the films, the toys, the playground battles etc, but who also grew up to have other diverse interests and social lives. These casual fans far outweigh the Hardcore Star Wars nerds.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Star Wars is just as nerdy as Star Trek is. Doesn't matter if you dress up as a Starfleet officer or a Jedi Knight, everday people on the street will laugh at your ass. The difference is that it's far easier to make fun of Star Trek fans because they can be easily labeled (or dismissed) as "Trekkies".

It doesn't help that quite a few Trekkies think of themselves as nerds to begin with and Star Wars fans generally don't. Perception and truth aren't always synonymous, IMO...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Star Wars on the otherhand has a reliable base of fans who grew up with the films, the toys, the playground battles etc, but who also grew up to have other diverse interests and social lives. These casual fans far outweigh the Hardcore Star Wars nerds.

Which is proof of what?

Star Trek also has a reliable base of fans who grew up with the films and TV series, the toys, the playground battles etc, but who also grew up to have other diverse interests and social lives. These casual fans far outweigh the Hardcore Star Trek nerds.

 

[ChickenPug!]

As far back as I can remember I've been/was a Star wars fan. But as grew older George's direction (mostly merchandise) turned me off. I defended the new films but the "Clone Wars" animated flick put the death nail in it for me. That is when I rediscovered ST and it captured my imagination.

Honestly though, is "nerdy" as bad as it used to be? Geek culture still has some sort of stigma but with the Internet it's part of pop culture now and more accepted.

I think that the difference is the volume of ST media out there. That gives fans more ways to geek out on specific things. There groups within groups within groups in Star Trek fandom. The "Trekkies" doc didn't help the image that much either.

But to boil it down to one sentence, "People make fun of things they don't understand."

One thing I wish that I could change about ST is the Geordi's eye piece. Every time I'm watching STNG and my wife walks by she mentions that it looks like a Banana hair clip and laughs at me.

 

[Butters]

Star Wars on the otherhand has a reliable base of fans who grew up with the films, the toys, the playground battles etc, but who also grew up to have other diverse interests and social lives. These casual fans far outweigh the Hardcore Star Wars nerds.

Which is proof of what?

Star Trek also has a reliable base of fans who grew up with the films and TV series, the toys, the playground battles etc, but who also grew up to have other diverse interests and social lives. These casual fans far outweigh the Hardcore Star Trek nerds.

I'm sure they do, but its the hardcore nerds getting the attention, and I doubt the numbers are even remotely comparable. How many children had Wrath of Kahn curtains?

A casual fan may casually discuss the series with a real fan and the conversation may turn to Dr Spock.
"Doctor Spock? Doctor? Do you know nothing, its Mister Spock. Doctor was Spock was..."
Whatever, the casual fan makes his retreat. The real fan gets hung up on the tiny details and trivia and frankly its scary. I know I'm generalising, but the media has noticed this sterotype and fixed it in the western psyche. Trekies are geeks. Casual fans/occasional viewers don't want to be associated with the fruity fringe.

Contrast that with Star Wars. Trek was never a must have toy, ever. When a thirty-something sees a toy X-Wing they think cool, I had one of those. There was never a buzz in the school yard about Star Trek, any sniff of it and it was the bully's wrath for you. An office conversation about star wars will involve mostly everyone, trek just doesn't have that. The new film may change that if its unpretentious and accessible enough but its a tall order.

To put it another way. Star Wars was a first love for many kids, between the age 5-11 years. It was cool in the playground, there were toys, stationary, clothes, bedroom accessories, you name it. Everyone was in. Star Trek, from experience, might then encountered sometime in the early teens when tastes and attitudes begin to mature a bit and followers appreciate the details. Unlike Star Wars though, this appeal is not universal, the majority will invest their energies in sports or chasing the other sex. Its the thoughtful quiet kids that find sollace in Trek. Of that smaller number, a portion of them will be the real geeks.

My point being that Trek was never embraced by the masses, those who did embrace it did so knowing it was uncool but didn't care. Trekkies are an easy target for ridicule but they invite it too. Arguing about canon and continuity with people who don't care. Talking about it like its a religion, a message of peace and love with star ships and pointy ears.

Another point being that Star Wars and Trek are both ridiculous, but Star Trek pretends it's all real.

 

[Steve Roby]

Trek was never a must have toy, ever. When a thirty-something sees a toy X-Wing they think cool, I had one of those. There was never a buzz in the school yard about Star Trek, any sniff of it and it was the bully's wrath for you.

To put it another way. Star Wars was a first love for many kids, between the age 5-11 years. It was cool in the playground, there were toys, stationary, clothes, bedroom accessories, you name it. Everyone was in. Star Trek, from experience, might then encountered sometime in the early teens when tastes and attitudes begin to mature a bit and followers appreciate the details.

How old are you? You're generalizing way too much, forgetting that there are people in this very forum who remember when there was no such thing as Star Wars.

Me, for instance. There was no Star Wars when I was 5-11 years old. But for much of that time, a lot of kids I knew at school were into Star Trek, making starship models, reading comics or books, discussing episodes, etc.

For that matter, where in the world were you when you were a kid? Star Trek has fans worldwide, but it's not too much of a stretch to say its greatest popularity has been in North America.

Your experience is valid for you. But it's not the way everyone in the world experienced it.

 

[Rarewolf]

To put it another way. Star Wars was a first love for many kids, between the age 5-11 years. It was cool in the playground, there were toys, stationary, clothes, bedroom accessories, you name it.

I was born in 1977, neither of my parents were in to sci-fi. But one of my earliest memories is getting the falcon, and 5 figures one christmas - it looks like this was xmas 1982. I also remember getting another two figures in the shops before the year's end!

So for me the toys came first, or maybe 1 tv broadcast.

Trek I'm sure my mum took me to Star Trek IV thinking it was Star Wars 4!

 

[SPCTRE]

Honestly though, is "nerdy" as bad as it used to be? Geek culture still has some sort of stigma but with the Internet it's part of pop culture now and more accepted.

That's the point, really. Nerddom has become pretty mainstream, so it doesn't really make much of a difference anymore. Needless to say, both franchises are quite nerdy, and that's fine.

 

[exodus]

i had a complete loser ass trekkie roomate at one time in college...i asked him about trek and star wars...

he said star wars is lame because its a fairy tale...star trek is cool because is real.

i asked what was real...vulcans and warp drive? in response he said, they could be!

then he cried like benny russell..."it is REEALL!!!!"

this is no joke. he cried, after being posed this question.

and THAT is why trek is nerdier than star wars.

Picard gets assimilated by the Borg an has nightmares and fears them.

Luke gets his hand chopped off by Vader and looks forward to kicking Vader's ass next time they meet.

Star Trek has nobody like Han Solo.

That is why Star Wars is cooler.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The real fan gets hung up on the tiny details and trivia and frankly its scary. I know I'm generalising, but the media has noticed this sterotype and fixed it in the western psyche. Trekies are geeks. Casual fans/occasional viewers don't want to be associated with the fruity fringe.

Another point being that Star Wars and Trek are both ridiculous, but Star Trek pretends it's all real.

Balderdash! I've met plenty of fans who, for them, considered Star Wars to be real, and had SW as their all-consuming passion, with arguments about how fast the Kessel run really was.

Our local museum is hosting a licensed Star Wars Science exhibit at the moment. Its very premise is that the six SW movies have done such a lot to inform the general public about many avenues of real science. Attendees are conducted through the exhibit by volunteers - fans in stormtrooper uniforms, or lightsabre-wielding, bearded men in brown burlap capes, who stay in character for the whole session, and even beyond.
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/2008/12/may-cpr-be-with-you.html

Nothing you've said explains a supposed (mythical?) divide between SW and ST fans.

 

[Fireflywyo300]

Star Wars has six movies which are largely created for mainstream consumption. It's a simple concept, Empire vs Rebels, lost hero, special destiny. The most basic of all hero stories in all of literature from Moses onward.


Star Wars is also cool because Han Solo shot first. lol


Trek comes across as nerdy because of the fans and the way mainstream media has highlighted them. Klingon dictionaries, Dentists making their offices to look like Trek, the woman in the picture above, etc. etc.... Doesn't give Trek a very positive image. Furthermore, Trek is more involved and requires time to absorb to learn all the elements of it.

However, BOTH are ultimately nerdy. In the end, though, who cares?

Here's a good way to put it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIUQw1w5OqM

Anyways, with the new movie coming out, maybe it will make Trek more consumable to the masses who haven't experienced Trek the way most of us have or at least had it done in a way that was perceived as "cool" and commercially consumable the way some Star Wars has been.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Honestly though, is "nerdy" as bad as it used to be? Geek culture still has some sort of stigma but with the Internet it's part of pop culture now and more accepted.

Fans perpetuate stigma themselves. They stigmatize those who appeared in Trekkies.. I've read on this bbs people who roll their eyes at any costumes. Then you get those who do dress in costumes who stigmatize those who are fat and dress in costumes. Who invented that ugly bully term, "starpig"? Fans I'm assuming.

As to which is more intellectual, I've spent many hours and many typed words discussing the philosophy of Star Wars. For me that was the intellectual franchise. Plenty of folk take Star Wars very seriously, as Therin points out in his post above this.

There are layers to all fandoms, you just don't see the more intense layers unless you either delve into them or they are exposed (and mocked) in the media.

 

[QuasarVM]

NM

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Star Trek has nobody like Han Solo.

Thank God for that.

 

[Therin of Andor]

There are layers to all fandoms, you just don't see the more intense layers unless you either delve into them or they are exposed (and mocked) in the media.

Or watch movies such as "Best in Show": nerd-dom and intense passion in the world of dog shows.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There are layers to all fandoms, you just don't see the more intense layers unless you either delve into them or they are exposed (and mocked) in the media.

Or watch movies such as "Best in Show": nerd-dom and intense passion in the world of dog shows.

Maybe we could use positive words like "connoisseur", "cognoscente", "aficionado", "scholar", "expert".. instead of nerd. Those words get used to describe folks with intense passion and knowledge about stuff like wine, sports, literature, art, film..

Some interests get made fun of--dog shows, sci-fi.. and some get respect. Not much reasoning behind it.

 

[exodus]

Star Trek has nobody like Han Solo.

Thank God for that.

Let me guess, you're a C-3PO fan.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Some interests get made fun of--dog shows, sci-fi.. and some get respect. Not much reasoning behind it.

Name a passion for something in popular culture that never gets ridiculed by people (or the media) who don't see why other people would feel compelled to be passionate about it.

There aren't any.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Some interests get made fun of--dog shows, sci-fi.. and some get respect. Not much reasoning behind it.

Name a passion for something in popular culture that never gets ridiculed by people (or the media) who don't see why other people would feel compelled to be passionate about it.

There aren't any.

But some are much more of a cliche and bashing post than others. Sci-fi fandom IS nerdom.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Star Trek has nobody like Han Solo.

Thank God for that.

Let me guess, you're a C-3PO fan.

No, not really.

I just think Solo is a complete jerk. I never liked him. Too much of a smartass. I don't like characters like that. I can't relate to roguish thugs, or thuggish rogues, or whatever the hell he is.

Guess now you know why I didn't like Firefly, eh?