Particularly as James Kirk makes them both look scrupulous by contrast.
Why is Janeway worse than Sisko when it comes to ...
- Thread starter DarthTom
- Start date
Particularly as James Kirk makes them both look scrupulous by contrast.
At least in the pilot the writers gave Janeway a genuine choice between getting her crew home, citing the Prime Directive as Tuvok did, or following Fed principles that the crew shouldn't simply let the Kazon gain a lot of power because it's not the crew's sector of space. Later on the series some writers took the PD to ridiculous extremes when it suited the plot.
Then you completely missed the entire point of the episode. The ep. has little to do with making dead friends happy, they're dead how can they still be happy?
The point was Adm. Janeway was going back in time to prevent herself from become the person she became. To stop herself from becoming jaded to the point where she no longer believed in the principals and morals she once had. Janeway lost her most closest friends, Chakotay became her second best friend and basically killed himself, Tuvok her first best went insane and Seven died. These were the people she cared for the most. Without them or her former boyfriend, she had nothing to come home too.
The whole ep. Adm. Janeway keeps saying how she forgot what she used to be like, how things she used to do and enjoy used to be. In going back sooner, she not only saves her "family" but she saves her own soul as well.
The entire ep. is about her saving her soul.
People,
Frankly, I agree with the poster who pointed out that a lot of people criticize Janeway more than Sisko because she's a woman and not a man. And to you Picard haters out there, I say, "fie." Sure, he upheld the Prime Directive more diligently than some other captains, but it wasn't always easy. In fact, I think one of his more creative applications of the PD was in the ep "Symbiosis." He made a hard choice, denying one side technology that would have eased their suffering short-term, but would benefit that society long-term by helping them break their addiction to the drug/medicine.
Red Ranger
Frankly, I agree with the poster who pointed out that a lot of people criticize Janeway more than Sisko because she's a woman and not a man. And to you Picard haters out there, I say, "fie." Sure, he upheld the Prime Directive more diligently than some other captains, but it wasn't always easy. In fact, I think one of his more creative applications of the PD was in the ep "Symbiosis." He made a hard choice, denying one side technology that would have eased their suffering short-term, but would benefit that society long-term by helping them break their addiction to the drug/medicine.
Red Ranger
Worthy of its own debate and it's own thread IMHO but the Prime Directive was a piece of shit concept to begin with.
By its logic, the US wouldn't help the people in Africa get clean water with technology because they lack the technical expertise themselves to do so.
BTW, Picard was as guilty as any of the other captains of violating the PD the difference was is that it usually was accompanied with a 20 minute speech to Riker [the viewer] why he was do so.
Yes, and that we must help those less fortunate than ourselves attitude has led to more than one disaster in Africa (usually along the lines of better wells + medical technology = greater cultivation + higher birthrate = increased use of resources = famine fifteen years down the track). Plus much of the point of the PD is to enable a species to develop through its own efforts, thus creating its own unique culture, not a distorted copy of the highly advanced race from the stars which helps them. This is the point Archer fails to understand re: the Vulcan's and his father. What's the point of humanity striving to develop warp drive (through much money, effort and human tragedy) if they can simply buy one from the Vulcans? But it's that effort that gives the human race confidence and maturity. If there's one problem with the Prime Directive on Star Trek it's that the writer's failed to adequately put across this argument - I suspect because people expect our heroes to 'do something' about an unsatisfactory situation. That's why you have so many episodes that argue the violation of the PD rather than the upholding of it.
Well anyway as DarthTom said this really deserves it's own thread. We're getting off topic. Is it possible that Janeway simply makes more of these controvertial decisions due to her circumstances? Sisko has Earth and Bajor looking over his shoulder, putting in their two cents worth, then Sisko has to live with his decisions because his station isn't going anywhere. Janeway can (and has to) make a decision without consulting Starfleet, and can just fly off afterwards (though this didn't always protect her).
"However Sisko doesn't get the same level of disdain with fans yet, he's done close to the same. The other day I re-watched For the Uniform and he destroyed the biosphere of an entire planet to catch one man."
Just out of curiosity, why do people persist in exaggerating about this? Sisko did not destroy the biosphere. He _did_ make it toxic to humans, but unless I'm recalling incorrectly there's nothing to indicate that other species couldn't continue to exist quite happily on that planet. Cardassians for instance.
I believe it's even said later in the episode that the Cardassian and Human colonists who had their atmospheres poisoned would be relocating to each others' planets. While what Sisko did could certainly be construed as an act of terrorism/biological warfare, let's not overstate what he did.
Just out of curiosity, why do people persist in exaggerating about this? Sisko did not destroy the biosphere. He _did_ make it toxic to humans, but unless I'm recalling incorrectly there's nothing to indicate that other species couldn't continue to exist quite happily on that planet. Cardassians for instance.
I believe it's even said later in the episode that the Cardassian and Human colonists who had their atmospheres poisoned would be relocating to each others' planets. While what Sisko did could certainly be construed as an act of terrorism/biological warfare, let's not overstate what he did.
I don't remember that. I could be wrong, but I thought the 'trilithium' was fatal to all humanoid life and Eddington has already made the planet uninhabitable to Cardassians regardless.
Regardless, that's an extreme thing to do to capture 1 person and when Janeway does essentially the same to capture one rogue starship by threatening an officer she gets criticized by fans for doing so but Sisko does not in this incident among others.
Edited to add: this is the real life equlivent of the US exploding nuclear weapons in the mountains of Pakistan and Afghanistan to find Bin Laden. I highly doubt the world would find that an acceptable solution or measured response to 9/11
Anwar is correct, Marquis and Cardassian colonists swapped planets. Sisko made a risky but calculated move. It got the job done and no one died.
I thought Janeway's torturing in 'Equinox' was one of her better character moments to be honest. She had spent the majority of her time in the Delta Quadrant standing by Starfleet regulations, probably getting the crew more into mischief than they needed to be - and I aren't counting the various anomolies of the week she dragged them into. 
When she ran into the Equinox and found out what Ransom had done in his mad plot to get home, I'm not surprised she went a little nuts. Ransom's crew were all in on the same plot, so I'm all for Janeway scaring the shit out of that crewman in the way that she did. 'Equinox' was a good Voyager episode. :thumbsup:
What annoys me about Janeway is her inconsistent characterisation. Going against Starfleet regulations is something you would expect her to do in the situation she and the crew were in. What you don't expect is her flip-flopping either way, or at least with no discussion about the trouble she has with these kinds of decisions to validate her change in attitude every so often.
It annoys me because the writers used to do it, back in the first season and even part of the second. Janeway used to be a favourite character as she struggled with her ethics, but by 'Endgame...' Nah, enough's been said about 'Endgame' above.
When she ran into the Equinox and found out what Ransom had done in his mad plot to get home, I'm not surprised she went a little nuts. Ransom's crew were all in on the same plot, so I'm all for Janeway scaring the shit out of that crewman in the way that she did. 'Equinox' was a good Voyager episode. :thumbsup:
What annoys me about Janeway is her inconsistent characterisation. Going against Starfleet regulations is something you would expect her to do in the situation she and the crew were in. What you don't expect is her flip-flopping either way, or at least with no discussion about the trouble she has with these kinds of decisions to validate her change in attitude every so often.
It annoys me because the writers used to do it, back in the first season and even part of the second. Janeway used to be a favourite character as she struggled with her ethics, but by 'Endgame...' Nah, enough's been said about 'Endgame' above.
Well, it's not like she could get advice from any other high ranking officers being lost in the Delta Quad.
Chakotay wasn't "offically" Starfleet and Tuvok was her subordinate, so she had no better choice than to use her best judgement at the time.
What would we do in her shoes?
Am I the only one who thinks Janeway should be given a little bit of leeway considering she was stuck 70,000 light years from the federation? Sure she's going to have to break the rules and play dirty sometimes. Sisko on the other hand, didn't usually have to follow the rules because he was "special", being the "prophet" and all, which always annoyed the hell out of me.
Overall I think Sisko was just better written than Janeway.
On the flip side, I think the Janeway character was much better acted. Brooks' ridiculous overacting would have been too much for a high school production of "Our Town," much less a television series, IMO. That's one of my biggest beefs with DS9 - his performance just really hurts the show for me.
On the flip side, I think the Janeway character was much better acted. Brooks' ridiculous overacting would have been too much for a high school production of "Our Town," much less a television series, IMO. That's one of my biggest beefs with DS9 - his performance just really hurts the show for me.
