You're not helping here... at the end of the day the uniforms are just clothes... a pullover and trousers, they aren't supposed to represent the future of technology or design in the way the ship and the bridge do, and you know that.
Why Is It Fashionable to Insult TOS?
- Thread starter Kirk1980
- Start date
You're not helping here... at the end of the day the uniforms are just clothes... a pullover and trousers, they aren't supposed to represent the future of technology or design in the way the ship and the bridge do, and you know that.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
A pullover and trousers as a uniform!? You can't have a simple pullover and trousers as a uniform! It was ridiculously cheap in the series; they'll never accept it as a an actual uniform today! This movie is doomed!
The reasoning does not compute.
The TOS Enterprise represented the future of technology. The new ship and bridge do not represent the future of technology. The represent contemporary technology and horribly so. The iBridge the most massive - this is the first decade of the 21st century folks - of all. Not to mention being so bright it blinds you, diminishing performance. It looks both ridiculous and ugly.
The reasoning does not compute.
You know what. I don't care. I tried to give an explanation for some of the so-called anti-TOS feeling around. Your opinions are your own, and I'm not going to change them - hell, as I've said - you could be right - people might go see it done your way. I don't think it would have as much chance with the general public as this one does, but since we'll never know, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not going to debate that stuff AGAIN in a different forum. Its getting really, really old - much like the design of the Enterprse.
zing!
(kidding)
zing!
(kidding)
There are a category of people who are basically self-loathing fans. They secretly like stuff, but will publicly slag it just to escape being associated with something that many others may think is cheesy or juvenile or has some social stigma attached to it.
I know folks who are going ga-ga over the new Trek XI trailer and cannot understand why I'm totally unmoved by it. Simple: because I see nothing there that interests me. Furthermore I'm already familiar with the basic story plot and there's nothing there either to interest me.
When you're old enough you've likely seen a lot of film and TV in your time and so then it isn't quite so easy to be excited about something just because it's "new." You've developed certain tastes and expectations in your entertainment and even if you can't explain it you'll respond if you perceive it. If you don't then you don't.
TOS has been around in circulation so long that many just accept it as old hat even if they're not overly familiar with it and perhaps see a couple of episodes over the years. They basically accept the cliches as established fact.
I don't have huge anxieties over a reboot, but if you're going to do it then be upfront and really reimagine it. At it's core a big plus for TNG was that it started pretty much with a clean sheet of paper and didn't trample too many sacred cows. But Trek XI is an open rewrite of everything TOS established in terms of ideas and continuity. If it goes on to re-envision the storytelling then it'll be a complete renouncement of TOS: "Were using familiar names and ideas to draw an audience, but we're jettisoning everything else."
But TOS will not be overshadowed or forgotten in the long run. Why do think TPTB are coming back to it? Because when all is said and done TOS is the most recognizable form of Trek and the one with most cultural and popular impact. And so unless Trek XI goes over really big (and even if it does) TOS will not be overshadowed for long. It was first. Even with missteps it did its thing generally well and it's a huge undertaking to erase and/or overshadow the sheer weight of material in 79 episodes, a handful of films and forty years of collective memory.
It's just always so easy to dismiss and deride something old. But time will exact its revenge when the good stuff of today is dismissed and slagged by some future generation.
I know folks who are going ga-ga over the new Trek XI trailer and cannot understand why I'm totally unmoved by it. Simple: because I see nothing there that interests me. Furthermore I'm already familiar with the basic story plot and there's nothing there either to interest me.
When you're old enough you've likely seen a lot of film and TV in your time and so then it isn't quite so easy to be excited about something just because it's "new." You've developed certain tastes and expectations in your entertainment and even if you can't explain it you'll respond if you perceive it. If you don't then you don't.
TOS has been around in circulation so long that many just accept it as old hat even if they're not overly familiar with it and perhaps see a couple of episodes over the years. They basically accept the cliches as established fact.
I don't have huge anxieties over a reboot, but if you're going to do it then be upfront and really reimagine it. At it's core a big plus for TNG was that it started pretty much with a clean sheet of paper and didn't trample too many sacred cows. But Trek XI is an open rewrite of everything TOS established in terms of ideas and continuity. If it goes on to re-envision the storytelling then it'll be a complete renouncement of TOS: "Were using familiar names and ideas to draw an audience, but we're jettisoning everything else."
But TOS will not be overshadowed or forgotten in the long run. Why do think TPTB are coming back to it? Because when all is said and done TOS is the most recognizable form of Trek and the one with most cultural and popular impact. And so unless Trek XI goes over really big (and even if it does) TOS will not be overshadowed for long. It was first. Even with missteps it did its thing generally well and it's a huge undertaking to erase and/or overshadow the sheer weight of material in 79 episodes, a handful of films and forty years of collective memory.
It's just always so easy to dismiss and deride something old. But time will exact its revenge when the good stuff of today is dismissed and slagged by some future generation.
Those people are idiots, but I think all the talk about TOS being overshadowed or forgotten in the long run is pure hyperbole. I really don't think anyone is trying to do that. If they are, then making another film called "Star Trek" is a really bad way to go about it.
^BINGO!
Very true. If you really wanted to overshadow Star Trek then you'd do much better by crafting something entirely new and original.
{APPLAUSE}
You speak the wisdom of the lords. I had this attitude throughout the series of sequel shows put out every few years. I wish I had a zillion quatloos every time I heard someone say "the old show is corny, now when someone says Star Trek, they'll mean Pickerd, Gordie and Dater!" This never happened. TNG, for all its plaudits and ratings, does not and will not have the staying power of the original and TNG was the best of the sequels. After "Make it so," what do you have from TNG that made it into the public lexicon?
Classic Trek is Immortal Trek, the first one to arrive and the last to leave. Like that guy from the office you invited to your party to be nice, but you really only tolerate him.
;-)
Indeed so - hopefully one day someone will. Until that day, we'll have to assume that they're trying to celebrate Trek.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Many of them just hate WILLIAM SHATNER; pure and simple. I think TOS, and more to the point, SHATNER are what make STAR TREK so cool.
Rob
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
If I like something and see beauty and value in it then I don't give a shit if no one else does.
I'm resigned to the notion that (relatively) few really get TOS. And I figure that's their loss and doesn't diminish my enjoyment in the least.
If I like something and see beauty and value in it then I don't give a shit if no one else does.
I'm resigned to the notion that (relatively) few really get TOS. And I figure that's their loss and doesn't diminish my enjoyment in the least.
Why? Sometimes I like catching threads I missed the first time around.Something deep down inside makes me wish you hadn't resurrected that old thread.
Who is insulting TOS? There have always been people around who didn't like TOS ever since TNG came out. I haven't noticed more people insulting it than usual, unless I'm missing something..
If there are though, there is no accounting for bad taste
The majority of 'defenses' for the new Trek movie are phrased in extremely negative ways about the original series, sadly.
I love TOS, but I'm not sure that statement is quite true. These 'defences' of the new movie merely require that any comparrisons of the new movie to TOS are objectively justifable. That the film isn't deep and meaningfull, or that its silly, or even just too popular isn't a fair criticism when TOS had its fair share of sillyness. Its also difficult to dispute that right now, trek needs the flash to survive. The grass roots of the whole 'human condition' will return, but only if theres a viable audience, and hopefully the new movie proved that there is.
Nobody is criticising TOS and the new film has made the return to TOS more likely, not less.
Why? Because topics like this usually turn into bitter fights between both sides of the argument. Fights about a freakin' entertainment franchise! And I figure this won't fare better now the new movie is out. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing whatsoever against a heated debate. Really, I don't. But the atmosphere in this particular forum has been rather tense even without another thread about this. I liked this forum more before it essentially became old fans versus new fans. But of course this is just my personal opinion. You may very well disagree.
Here's the truth. Every Trek show subsequent to TOS should look and effectively be "better". Two decades separate TOS and TNG. The world and its expectations in entertainment changed dramatically in that period. Political correctness became an almost default mode of behaviour. Sanitary, neat, correct and orderly...all wrapped-up in tolerance and acceptance. It lead to many dry, boardroom-like scenes, pompus delivery and an almost preachy undertone that was rammed down your throat in slow motion...capped by a sudden, often weak ending to each episode.
In the 60's MANY actors were "hammy" or over-the-top in their projections of character, reaction and delivery. Over statement sold and hero's solved their problems with horses, brawls and tough stances in tough times. The message and action entertained while not leaving you feeling...at least too often....like you have a bad Brazilian when all you wanted was some live action and intelligent entertainment. They talked through their problems...but only to a point.
Sure, the sets and effects were inferior relative to today....but the show was brilliant and the stories were imaginative without pregnant lulls in action, never-ending, mundane story arcs and window-dressing characters.
So it comes down to fans that cut their teeth on post-87 Trek shows to giving the old TOS a chance to stand on its own merits. Show per show none can stand, head to head with TOS, IMO. You just have to look past the glitter and modern-day gadgetry and let the story, drama and abundant energy flow-through.
