Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[at Quark's]

It may have been that Mama Kate simply didn't want Harry Kim to grow up. Case in point: The Disease. Janeway gets really angry about an offense by Harry Kim that she probably would have had an easier time accepting of other officers. She even admits this in the dialog.

KIM: You reacted like any Captain would.
JANEWAY: Probably. But I can't help wondering if my response would have been the same if it had been, say, Tom Paris instead of you. Oh don't get me wrong, I still would have been angry and disappointed, but I wouldn't have been surprised.
KIM: Because Ensign Kim doesn't break the rules.
JANEWAY: The truth is, Harry, I think about you differently than the rest of the crew. Which isn't to suggest that I don't care deeply about each of them. You came to me fresh out of the Academy, wide-eyed with excitement about your first deep space assignment. From that first day, I've always felt more protective of you than the others.
KIM: I appreciate that. But that was five years ago. I've changed.
JANEWAY: Yes, you have.
KIM: Maybe I'm not the perfect officer anymore.
JANEWAY: Maybe not. But you're a better man.

So, perhaps she didn't promote him before that time because she hadn't fully realised herself she had a psychological need to keep seeing him as 'the newbie', and perhaps she didn't promote him after that because, even though she now realised that he had grown, she couldn't do it too quickly after the permanent reprimand in his record and had to wait a year or two, three. By which time they got home.

 

[Oddish]

It may have been that Mama Kate simply didn't want Harry Kim to grow up. Case in point: The Disease. Janeway gets really angry about an offense by Harry Kim that she probably would have had an easier time accepting of other officers. She even admits this in the dialog.



So, perhaps she didn't promote him before that time because she hadn't fully realised herself she had a psychological need to keep seeing him as 'the newbie', and perhaps she didn't promote him after that because, even though she now realised that he had grown, she couldn't do it too quickly after the permanent reprimand in his record and had to wait a year or two, three. By which time they got home.

That's probably the best explanation I've seen presented for Harry's stagnation in a long time. It's still not a rational defense, though. A selfish emotional need to stunt a person's career and personal growth for your own comfort is like a mother who insists on wiping her 8-year-old's nose instead of just telling him to go get a tissue, because she can't stop seeing him as her baby. It might be understandable, but that doesn't make it right.

And, were that the case, either Chakotay or Tuvok should have quietly reminded her that her actions weren't right for Harry/logical. That's what friends (and first officers) are for.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Maybe "Year of Hell" should have had a sequence where Voyager is caught in one of Annorax's adjustments and Kim becomes a lieutenant commander.

I'm picturing the opposite. The two-parter opens with a big to-do about Harry's BIG promotion. Everyone's walking about the ship greeting him with, "Lieutenant." "Congratulations, Lieutenant!" "Long time coming, Lt. Kim!"

Then we cut Annorax on the time ship inputting some calculations. We see a vast, futuristic city. Then, the beam hits, erases the city back to empty swampland. We cut back to Voyager, everyone's still congratulating Lt. Kim. Then, we CUT TO: Lt. Kim's collar, where one hollow pip erases from existence. The same people are still passing by Harry, "Ensign." "Good morning, Ensign." "Still waiting on the results of that scan, Ensign."

 

[DonIago]

^At least in that version at the very end Harry might still have his promotion.

One thing I didn't quite follow about YoH is whether we're supposed to believe that until that episode Our Heroes haven't yet encountered anything that was impacted by Annorax's clever little tricks. In other words, at the end of the episode, are Our Heroes back in the same timeline (mostly) they were in at the beginning of the episode, or are they in a different "original" timeline?

 

[at Quark's]

^At least in that version at the very end Harry might still have his promotion.

One thing I didn't quite follow about YoH is whether we're supposed to believe that until that episode Our Heroes haven't yet encountered anything that was impacted by Annorax's clever little tricks. In other words, at the end of the episode, are Our Heroes back in the same timeline (mostly) they were in at the beginning of the episode, or are they in a different "original" timeline?

It must have been a different timeline. After all, in the timeline at the end, at 'day 1', the colony at Kyana Prime still exists, which had been lost in the original timeline at that point in time. As to whether there's any difference for Voyager in this new timeline, I wouldn't know.

 

[Farscape One]

I think what we saw from the beginning of part 1 where Annorax destroyed the Zahl colony was the original timeline, and every episode prior on VOYAGER is the new one.

 

[Oddish]

They didn't make a real issue of Harry's rank until late in the series. Probably as a middle finger to the viewers who were expressing concern that Harry was way overdue for that hollow pip. It was kind of like "we're going to do this and shove it in your faces and you can't stop us."

In any case, though, Harry had multiple promotions effectively cease to exist over the course of the series, thanks to assorted timeline alterations. We might not have seen those extra pips vanish from his collar, but they did.

 

[at Quark's]

They didn't make a real issue of Harry's rank until late in the series. Probably as a middle finger to the viewers who were expressing concern that Harry was way overdue for that hollow pip. It was kind of like "we're going to do this and shove it in your faces and you can't stop us."

Unfortunately, they seemed to have had that attitude a bit. Some fans weren't happy with the way Kes left the show. And then they gave us Fury.

 

[DonIago]

They did indeed infuriate us.

 

[jackoverfull]

Janeway could have been wary of Kim's promotion due to the Kim on her bridge not being the original Kim. Remember, Kim died in Emanations, then in Deadlock the original Ensign Kim was replaced by NOT! Ensign Kim. So, would NOT! Ensign Kim's record transfer over to the Ensign Kim that was sucked out the hull breach? Or would NOT! Ensign Kim be forced to revert to the bottom of the promotion totem pole. Keep in mind, Captain Janeway didn't seem all too thrilled about dealing with temporal anomalies

he’s literally the same person. And there even was a precedent already: when Riker got duplicated the duplicate was reinstated at the same rank he was originally (lieutenant, I think), he neither automatically acquired a commander’s tank as if he was the person that had earned it nor was dropped back to ensign as if he was just out of academy.

 

[DonIago]

I think what we saw from the beginning of part 1 where Annorax destroyed the Zahl colony was the original timeline, and every episode prior on VOYAGER is the new one.

But wouldn't the original timeline be one where Annorax never made any alterations?

 

[Oddish]

Unfortunately, they seemed to have had that attitude a bit. Some fans weren't happy with the way Kes left the show. And then they gave us Fury.

They did indeed infuriate us.

"Fury", yeah. Didn't see it, don't plan to. Bad enough that "Threshold" is stuck in my brain cells.

Kes's initial departure, while not ideal, was about the best the writers could do with the hand they were dealt. They needed to eliminate a character to make room for Seven. And considering that Seven was one of the two characters who really reached their potential in terms of development, it was a good enough trade.

I cut a show slack when they do something necessary due to the IRL situation, like Riker's career stagnation on TNG, even if it wasn't the best way. But Harry's situation doesn't qualify. Promoting him would have required only a snippet of footage and not changed his role in the show at all.

he’s literally the same person.

Exactly. While Harry's death and replacement makes for good meme humor, it does not provide a rational explanation for abusing his character. Besides, everyone on Voyager was dead in one reality and alive in the other, so I call it equal footing.

 

[MacLeod]

"

I cut a show slack when they do something necessary due to the IRL situation, like Riker's career stagnation on TNG, even if it wasn't the best way. But Harry's situation doesn't qualify. Promoting him would have required only a snippet of footage and not changed his role in the show at all.


.

But it might confuse viewers who only tune in every other episode or so, and god help the confusion if the networks aired the episodes out of sequence.

 

[at Quark's]

"Fury", yeah. Didn't see it, don't plan to. Bad enough that "Threshold" is stuck in my brain cells.

Kes's initial departure, while not ideal, was about the best the writers could do with the hand they were dealt. They needed to eliminate a character to make room for Seven. And considering that Seven was one of the two characters who really reached their potential in terms of development, it was a good enough trade.

I can understand they chucked Kes, even if I'm not happy about it. That is, I know the decision was between Kes or Harry, as both characters really didn't really seem to go anywhere (and frankly, I think Chakotay could have been added to that list). I, myself, wouldn't have been unhappy to see Harry go, but again, I could live with Kes' departure. Even so, Fury was uncalled for- if they could write nothing better than that, they should have left the character alone.

he’s literally the same person. And there even was a precedent already: when Riker got duplicated the duplicate was reinstated at the same rank he was originally (lieutenant, I think), he neither automatically acquired a commander’s tank as if he was the person that had earned it nor was dropped back to ensign as if he was just out of academy.

Given that their 'point of departure' was only when the ship split, presumably only being a few hours before Harry 2 replaced dead Harry 1, I'd say that Janeway should have treated Harry 2 exactly as she should have treated Harry 1, as they're practically the same person- it's clearly a different case from Will vs. Thomas Riker, who had obviously been molded into very different personalities by their different circumstances over those eight years.

 

[Oddish]

QUOTE: But it might confuse viewers who only tune in every other episode or so, and god help the confusion if the networks aired the episodes out of sequence.

Nope, that doesn't work either. They could have started Season 5 with him having an extra pip on his collar. There was a two-month hiatus in the story, so they wouldn't have even had to mention it, just call him "Lieutenant Kim" from there on. That would have eliminated the possibility of confusion.

Not that it mattered to them, since Tuvok was promoted to LCDR a few episodes into the fourth season, and Paris was demoted in the middle of the fifth.

QUOTE: I know the decision was between Kes or Harry, as both characters really didn't really seem to go anywhere (and frankly, I think Chakotay could have been added to that list).

Chakotay would have been the perfect character to delete. Once it was decided that he and Janeway weren't going to be a thing, the Maquis were neatly integrated into Voyager's crew, and his Native American spirituality was going to get short shrift in the rationalist secular Trek universe, there just wasn't anywhere for him to go. Both Harry and Kes were eminently developable, had the writers bothered.

Besides, eliminating the first officer would have demonstrated that no one was safe in the deadly Delta Quadrant.

 

[DonIago]

I'm glad they didn't delete Chakotay; he was one of the few people on the ship who could at least feign having any resistance to Janeway when she was crossing the line.

 

[Oddish]

I liked him as well. All 10 of Voyager's main characters had considerable potential.
A scientist captain, balancing toughness and command presence with empathy and femininity.
A principled renegade with a strong belief in the unseen.
A logician and a warrior (and a spy when necessary) with a dry wit.
A troubled but talented young man who finds an unexpected second chance... and a bumpy road to redemption.
A half-Klingon engineer, struggling with her warrior nature, and the demons that come with it.
A trader and scavenger with great tragedy and loss beneath his relentlessly cheerful exterior.
A woman, wise far beyond her years, determined to get as much as possible from every moment of her abbreviated life.
A computer program, created as a mere tool, but forced to become far more than the sum of his ones and zeros.
A newly minted officer who finds himself having to grow up quickly, and take unexpected responsibilities.
And, a drone pulled from the Borg collective, forced to come to terms with her individuality and humanity.

Some of these characters were developed, or at least used to a portion of their potential. Some, sadly... weren't.

 

[fireproof78]

I cut a show slack when they do something necessary due to the IRL situation, like Riker's career stagnation on TNG, even if it wasn't the best way. But Harry's situation doesn't qualify. Promoting him would have required only a snippet of footage and not changed his role in the show at all.

Not that it mattered to them, since Tuvok was promoted to LCDR a few episodes into the fourth season, and Paris was demoted in the middle of the fifth.

Yeah, Harry's would have made sense if no one got promoted. Since people did then there is no excuse. None.

Both Harry and Kes were eminently developable, had the writers bothered.

Indeed. And Kes would have been far more interesting because there was already built in potential. Why they didn't bother baffles me and makes me more frustrated with Voyager than most Treks.

 

[DonIago]

...I just found myself wondering what might have been if the DS9 and VOY writing teams had been reversed.

But the idea of DS9 blowing its potential is deeply distressing.

 

[fireproof78]

DS9 never felt full of potential. It just was in my view. Completely uninteresting political games between Starfleet, Cardassia and whatever newcomers end up. What it became was really interesting. Voyager had something a bit more unique and did TNG lite but in another quadrant. Maybe I wasn't familiar with DS9 enough (I didn't follow it like I did early VOY) but it simply was a blank and became more. VOY was potential and was just basic.