Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[Oddish]

that’s exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of (and that happens). No surprise he didn’t like Jellico!

He didn't like Jellico because Jellico was a control freak who didn't listen to his subordinates, even when they knew more about something than he did.

If Riker had wanted a lucrative command, he would have done his tour on the flagship, then taken his own command in "The Icarus Factor". Everything he did up to that episode was textbook career building, and if he'd followed it to it's natural conclusion, he'd have been wearing admiral braid by his 45th birthday. Passing up the command he was offered was his first career-damaging decision, and more would follow.

Again, while that was unrealistic, it gets a pass: it was the only way to keep a very solid cast together.

Ah, Janeway's clever ploy to keep Harry out of the center seat!

You do have to wonder what Janeway's true feelings about Harry were, don't you? Given that her decision not to promote him was devoid of logic, that leaves only her personal feelings.

 

[fireproof78]

You do have to wonder what Janeway's true feelings about Harry were, don't you? Given that her decision not to promote him was devoid of logic, that leaves only her personal feelings.

As well as a permanent reprimand of getting sexually involved with an alien species.

 

[Oddish]

As well as a permanent reprimand of getting sexually involved with an alien species.

Refuted that one long ago. Harry's "indiscretion" occured in Season 5. That's two years AFTER Harry should have had that little black lieutenant's pip on his collar.

And besides, Harry was under alien influence. Just like Janeway herself was when she almost ground her ship into tritanium confetti by flying it into those binary pulsars. If Janeway would censure him, she would have to censure herself.

 

[fireproof78]

Refuted that one long ago. Harry's "indiscretion" occured in Season 5. That's two years AFTER Harry should have had that little black lieutenant's pip on his collar.

And besides, Harry was under alien influence. Just like Janeway herself was when she almost ground her ship into tritanium confetti by flying it into those binary pulsars. If Janeway would censure him, she would have to censure herself.

I was more commenting on her attitude towards Harry, not what would keep him from promotion.

 

[Oddish]

The only evidence that Janeway's feelings toward Harry were in any way negative was the fact that he never made lieutenant. She might have been disappointed in him at the choice he made, but she wouldn't have destroyed his career over it.

 

[Farscape One]

Unless she just doesn't like duplicates of her crew taking over a dead one...

 

[jackoverfull]

Ah, Janeway's clever ploy to keep Harry out of the center seat!

She’s probably still pissed in having the only ship in starfleet with no center seat!

He didn't like Jellico because Jellico was a control freak who didn't listen to his subordinates, even when they knew more about something than he did.

i was being sarcastic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He didn't like Jellico because Jellico was a control freak who didn't listen to his subordinates, even when they knew more about something than he did.

Data sorted out Jellico's four shift rotation lickity split.

Riker was too dumb to figure it out, so he went to a party to get drunk and pick up girls, and wine about how mean the Captain is.

Riker had a bourbon and coke in his hand while Eddy was chewing him out.

 

[DonIago]

Jellico and Riker were just a toxic pairing. They were both competent officers in their own rights but were stylistically different enough to clash badly.

Though it can probably be argued that Riker held a (subconscious?) grudge against Jellico from jump because he was "replacing" Picard. Perhaps Riker felt Nechayev snubbed him in the process, and had served with Picard long enough that he'd forgotten that senior officers aren't required to explain the rationales for their orders under normal circumstances.

 

[Farscape One]

Actually, Riker was not really insubordinate. It was only during that final argument that he got relieved that he seemed that way, and even then Jellico was just dismissive of the idea of attempting to help Picard.

 

[DonIago]

Riker may not have been technically insubordinate in prior conversations but he certainly came across as resistant.

Jellico had a different command style than Picard's, and if Riker wanted to keep the XO position than it was his job to adapt to Jellico's style. He can recommend things to Jellico, sure, but at the end of the day, Jellico's the captain.

 

[jackoverfull]

I wonder how illustrious a post on the Titan is...The crew of the Cerritos sure seem to think highly of it.

 

[Oddish]

Data sorted out Jellico's four shift rotation lickity split.

But it still took the very human crew much longer to adapt to working with new people, at different times.

Jellico and Riker were just a toxic pairing. They were both competent officers in their own rights but were stylistically different enough to clash badly.

I would agree with that if not for Jellico's insistence on adapting to a four-shift rotation with battle imminent. A change like that should be made during a period of low stress activity, such as surveying a relatively empty area of space. It gives the new shifts time to work out the kinks. Jellico should have known that.

Jellico had a different command style than Picard's, and if Riker wanted to keep the XO position than it was his job to adapt to Jellico's style. He can recommend things to Jellico, sure, but at the end of the day, Jellico's the captain.

True. Riker might have let his concern for Picard, his friend, affect his judgment. But he's only human. If you gave Jellico a ship's company of Datas and Worfs, they would probably work very well together.

wonder how illustrious a post on the Titan is...The crew of the Cerritos sure seem to think highly of it.

It must have been a fine ship, given that it FINALLY lured Riker away from the Enterprise.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Picard had a pleasure yacht in a time of peace.

Jellico wanted a warship to kick some ass.

 

[DonIago]

For Jellico to become a captain in the first place there must have been a decent number of people with whom he worked well enough. And really, aside from Riker himself, the crew seemed to work well enough with Jellico once the initial shock wore off, Riker's misgivings notwithstanding.

 

[Oddish]

Jellico had a number of good points. He was decisive, efficient. He understood how to deal with Cardassians. He understood that the bridge is not really the place for an officer in a bimbo outfit. He seemed to connect with Geordi, and he obviously had no prejudice against androids: he was happy to make Data his first officer. And while he had the good sense not to trade a whole system for Picard, he got him back safe if not quite sound.

 

[jackoverfull]

It must have been a fine ship, given that it FINALLY lured Riker away from the Enterprise.

either that or Deanna convinced him it was time to move on. Especially as the enterprise was no longer the enterprise he used to love.

Jellico had a number of good points. He was decisive, efficient. He understood how to deal with Cardassians. He understood that the bridge is not really the place for an officer in a bimbo outfit. He seemed to connect with Geordi, and he obviously had no prejudice against androids: he was happy to make Data his first officer. And while he had the good sense not to trade a whole system for Picard, he got him back safe if not quite sound.

I really liked Jellico...BTW, in the Italian version he was dubbed by the same voice actor that dubbed shatner in the movie, close your eyes and you might think that Kirk got to command the D!

 

[at Quark's]

Jellico had a number of good points. He was decisive, efficient. He understood how to deal with Cardassians. He understood that the bridge is not really the place for an officer in a bimbo outfit. He seemed to connect with Geordi, and he obviously had no prejudice against androids: he was happy to make Data his first officer. And while he had the good sense not to trade a whole system for Picard, he got him back safe if not quite sound.

I'd even reverse the perspective. To me he seemed to be a pretty good captain, with perhaps a few weaker spots. He wasn't playing 'nice' but that wasn't his assigment either - he wasn't there to take command of the Enterprise permanently and to invest into good relations with the crew to make that pay off in the long term, but to get the ship whipped into shape for a possible confrontation ASAP.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know what a spoonerism is?

A grammatical fuck up where you "accidentally" mix up the first letters of a pair of words.

Harry Kim = Carry Him = My gimp son needs a piggyback, because he's useless stack of shit..

 

[Oddish]

If they'd made Harry useless or incompetent... that would have been awesome in it's own way! We NEVER see a Starfleet officer who's just bad at his job, who never should have applied to the academy. If Harry had been a 7-year ensign because he deserved to be, that actually could have made him one of Voyager's most interesting characters, instead of one of its most forgettable.