Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[Oddish]

...to play Devil's Advocate it's kind of interesting to guess what incident would cause Janeway to turn on Kim. Was it when he hooked up with Darren Tal against Janeway's orders in "The Disease"? Or maybe it was when he fired on an alien ship without authorization in "Favorite Son".

Favorite Son: Had he not fired, Voyager would likely have been incinerated when the alien ship opened fire. Just like Data in "Redemption Part II", Harry's actions were appropriate given the circumstances.

The Disease: I'll give you this one, but it shouldn't have mattered. It was a mid-Season 5 episode. Harry's collar should have had that hollow pip on it two years before then.

 

[amp]

Well Janeway was quite mercurial, so even if Kim was in the right she may have still held it against him.

Here's another possibility: The Harry Kim that Janeway praised was the one who died in "Deadlock". His replacement, although exactly like the old Harry in every way, was hated by Janeway and that's why she failed to promote him.

 

[Oddish]

She held a grudge against him for saving her crew, her ship, and her life? Janeway's mercurial, but not THAT mercurial. Her ultimate goal has always been the safe return home of her crew.

Also, remember that Naomi Wildman was duplicated the same way Harry was, and Janeway seemed to bear her no ill will.

The notion that Janeway secretly disliked Harry does hold water; consider that Harry was promoted (or close to it) in FIVE alternate timelines, all of them when he was no longer under Janeway's command (or never under her to begin with). He reached command rank in three of them.

 

[Voth commando1]

IU there simply aren’t any positions available on the chain as it were. That said, Harry is hardly without prestige-he gets to captain the ship when Janeway is off duty, the night shift, he goes to senior staff meetings, and is apparently the highest ranking junior officer(that seems to be what Warhead implies). In every timeline where voyager returns, Harry advances through the ranks rapidly. As he clearly has more experience than any ensign would.

 

[Guy Gardener]

IU there simply aren’t any positions available on the chain as it were. That said, Harry is hardly without prestige-he gets to captain the ship when Janeway is off duty, the night shift, he goes to senior staff meetings, and is apparently the highest ranking junior officer(that seems to be what Warhead implies). In every timeline where voyager returns, Harry advances through the ranks rapidly. As he clearly has more experience than any ensign would.

Joe Carey died.

Assistant Chief Engineer vacancy.

No takers?

 

[Voth commando1]

Joe Carey died.

Assistant Chief Engineer vacancy.

No takers?

Late in the show, but Harry isn’t an engineering specialist so...?

 

[Oddish]

IU there simply aren’t any positions available on the chain as it were. That said, Harry is hardly without prestige-he gets to captain the ship when Janeway is off duty, the night shift, he goes to senior staff meetings, and is apparently the highest ranking junior officer(that seems to be what Warhead implies). In every timeline where voyager returns, Harry advances through the ranks rapidly. As he clearly has more experience than any ensign would.

I've got eight, count 'em eight Starfleet officers who say that doesn't matter!
1. Geordi LaForge - Promoted to Lieutenant Commander, remained chief engineer of Enterprise.
2. Deanna Troi - Promoted to Commander, remained ship's counselor.
3. Worf - Promoted to Lt. Commander, remained security chief on Enterprise (moved to DS9 a year later).
4. Benjamin Sisko - Promoted to Captain, remained DS9's commanding officer.
5. Jadzia Dax - Promoted to Lt. Commander, remained DS9's science officer.
6. Julian Bashir - Promoted to senior lieutenant, remained DS9's doctor.
7. Tuvok - Promoted to Lt Commander, remained Voyager's security chief.
8. Tom Paris - Reduced to Ensign and promoted to Lieutenant, remained Voyager's helmsman and part time Sickbay assistant throughout.

Harry could have, and should have, been #9 on the list.

There is no legitimate excuse for Harry's seven years as an ensign. None.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Late in the show, but Harry isn’t an engineering specialist so...?

He designed a super shuttle in Non Sequittor.

 

[Oddish]

And eight months, I repeat eight frickin' months out of academy, he had accomplished enough in that timeline to be potentially promoted to lieutenant.

He also assisted with a number of projects on Voyager. Tom's Delta Flyer and Seven's astrometrics lab to name two.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I never really understood the reasoning behind Paris going straight in as a lieutenant on day one - Kim was watching him eat hot, plain tomato soup one minute and needs to call him sir the next minute.

Not that I particularly care that Kim was never promoted, but Paris being busted down to ensign and promoted to lieutenant again is a bit of a slap in the face I must admit...

 

[jackoverfull]

I never really understood the reasoning behind Paris going straight in as a lieutenant on day one

janeway reactivated his commission and his last rank was lieutenant, so no problem there.

Promoting him again without promoting Kim was absurd, though.

And a missed opportunity for role reversal.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Hang on now...

You say 'reactivated his comission' like he took a leave of absence or a career break. He covered up his own pilot error that killed three people, was discharged from Starfleet, then got caught in the employ of an outlaw organisation and jailed as a consequence.

Yet after all that you still don't have to start at the bottom of the ladder!? Come on!

 

[Guy Gardener]

If position dictates rank.

Some with a shitty rank is not allowed to do the cool jobs.

Then only some one with the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade, no higher, no lower, can be the chief helmsman. Which is the admin in charge of all the other helmsmen, making the duty roster and filing reports, and reading reports.

Or...

Was Tom still the chief helmsman when he was an Ensign?

 

[jackoverfull]

Hang on now...

You say 'reactivated his comission' like he took a leave of absence or a career break. He covered up his own pilot error that killed three people, was discharged from Starfleet, then got caught in the employ of an outlaw organisation and jailed as a consequence.

Yet after all that you still don't have to start at the bottom of the ladder!? Come on!

Are you mixing him up with Locarno?

Was Tom still the chief helmsman when he was an Ensign?

he was.

 

[Guy Gardener]

he was.

There's no proof either way.

It's just head canon.

Paris and Locarno had nearly identical back stories.

 

[jackoverfull]

There's no proof either way.

It's just head canon.

janeway never said he would lose the position when getting demoted, nor that he would get it back afterwards. Also, he was clearly a bridge officer, showing up at meetings and so on.

Paris and Locarno had nearly identical back stories.

similar, not identical. Locarno was booted because of the incident you mention, Paris because he was a maquis sympathizer, the first never finished the academy, the second most certainly did, rising to the rank of lieutenant afterwards. For the two of them being the same person (which is a nice and popular theory, granted) Paris should have changed his name when first joining for unknown reasons and be allowed to join again at some point.

Now, the writers seemed to be confused themselves occasionally, with Torres once saying that Paris was expelled from the academy.

Bottom line, then being the same person is a nice theory but at this point is not canon.

 

[jackoverfull]

Turns out I had forgotten about the incident that led to Tom’s incrimination, though, and that is really canon.

Still, for him and Locarno being the same person, consider that Nick was an expelled cadet in 2386, by 2361 Tom would have had the time to join again, graduate and get promoted to full lieutenant, sounds a very fast career to me, especially for someone whose past history was already blighted by recklessness leading to the death of fellow class members and insincerity in trying to cover it up.

 

[Oddish]

Tom is, in my mind, irrelevant. His reactivation at lieutenant JG was Ok. His reduction to ensign was well deserved. And, his re-promotion to lieutenant JG was fine as well. In short, he was character ranking done right. Ditto with Tuvok (promoted to lieutenant commander). This concerns Harry Kim: his position, his abilities, his accomplishments, and his seniority all rated a promotion (or more likely two). And as far as I'm concerned, the fact that he didn't get one was inexcusable stupidity on the part of the writers. Worse even than the abomination that is "Threshold": the latter episode was a mistake. Harry's seven-year ensignhood was a deliberate and calculated decision. I honestly don't get who professional writers can be so impossibly stupid.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Are you mixing him up with Locarno?

No. I've literally spelled out Paris' entire backstory to you as of Caretaker.

If anyone is confused it's you.

 

[Oddish]

Correct. Paris's mistake killed three people, and he came clean on his own. Lacarno killed one, and Wesley ratted him out.