Actually, she's a LCDR prior to reporting onboard the Enterprise in Encounter at Farpoint:
But later in the same episode in Sickbay, she's a CDR:
Which accounts for most people not being aware of her promotion.
Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?
- Thread starter B. L.
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Actually, she's a LCDR prior to reporting onboard the Enterprise in Encounter at Farpoint:
But later in the same episode in Sickbay, she's a CDR:
Which accounts for most people not being aware of her promotion.
I just checked "Thine Own Self". Beverly says she wanted to 'stretch herself out a little' about 8 years ago when Troi asks why she put herself through the extra work. That episode took place in 2370, which puts it at 2362. Even without knowing what year the episode took place, 8 years prior to that is before TNG aired and when Crusher was assigned to the Enterprise.
So she was a Commander from the jump. It was just a costume error. (Which makes the producers of VOYAGER look even more foolish... they fixed her pips in the same episode. It took over half a season to correct Tuvok and Paris'. I wonder who on the production team finally said, 'Wait a minute, guys. It's Lieutenant Tuvok' and pointed at his pips?)
So she was a Commander from the jump. It was just a costume error. (Which makes the producers of VOYAGER look even more foolish... they fixed her pips in the same episode. It took over half a season to correct Tuvok and Paris'. I wonder who on the production team finally said, 'Wait a minute, guys. It's Lieutenant Tuvok' and pointed at his pips?)
The Enterprise is also the Federation flagship with a LOT more attention on it. Voyager is a dinky little ship tasked with tracking down a few Starfleet rejects hotrodding around the Badlands with a bunch of spies on board.
Hell, the original crew had a screwy rank structure. The first officer, Cavit, was only a Lt. Commander (instead of full Commander, like Riker). Then, of course, you had an Ensign as a department head. Of course, it IS possible that Starfleet contacted Voyager before the displacement wave hit, informing Janeway they were made aware of Kim's infraction at Quark's, and let her know the case would be under review once Voyager completed its mission, thus disqualifying Kim from being promoted
Commander is a rank that lets you boss around your underlings.
Which is necessary if you want to examine prostates.
Doctors need rank to make things happen.
The bridge officers examine means you can work on the bridge on a normal day, and assume command if things become less than normal.
An Ensign can assume command.
Which is necessary if you want to examine prostates.
Doctors need rank to make things happen.
The bridge officers examine means you can work on the bridge on a normal day, and assume command if things become less than normal.
An Ensign can assume command.
Given Voyager is not a large ship, with a relatively small crew, I can see a Lt. Cmdr. as XO. Riker was offered a small ship, the Drake, when he was a Lt. Cmdr. He was also XO of the Hood while a Lt. Cmdr.
I've heard in the real US Navy that small ships can be commanded by a rank as low as Lt. Cmdr., so I never had a problem with the XO of Voyager being one.
I've heard in the real US Navy that small ships can be commanded by a rank as low as Lt. Cmdr., so I never had a problem with the XO of Voyager being one.
The Enterprise is also the Federation flagship with a LOT more attention on it. Voyager is a dinky little ship tasked with tracking down a few Starfleet rejects hotrodding around the Badlands with a bunch of spies on board.
Hell, the original crew had a screwy rank structure. The first officer, Cavit, was only a Lt. Commander (instead of full Commander, like Riker). Then, of course, you had an Ensign as a department head. Of course, it IS possible that Starfleet contacted Voyager before the displacement wave hit, informing Janeway they were made aware of Kim's infraction at Quark's, and let her know the case would be under review once Voyager completed its mission, thus disqualifying Kim from being promoted
Ok, Voyager is a smaller ship, 150 souls instead of 1,000. So let's reduce the crank of all senior staff by one level.
First officer: LCDR. ○○●
Chief Engineer: Lieutenant. ○○
Operations Officer: Lieutenant. ○○
Lowest ranking member: Lieutenant JG ○●
In other words, even allowing for the smaller ship, the senior staff should have consisted of JG's and above.
And finally, there WAS no infraction. Harry was warned about Ferengi at the academy. Quark knew this, and probably had made a lucrative profit plucking brand new ensigns like chickens, using their academy training against them. But he never had any intention of reporting anyone.
Agreed about Quark. He was just trying to get Kim to pay through the nose for his goods. It would have worked if Paris wasn't there.
But it wasn't Harry's money.
The ship, or Sisko pays for things that Harry wants to own.
Which is a credit system.
Quark had to approach Sisko at a later point in time to cash in a dead man's chit.
The ship, or Sisko pays for things that Harry wants to own.
Which is a credit system.
Quark had to approach Sisko at a later point in time to cash in a dead man's chit.
Which Harry never thumbprinted or did anything to finish the sale.
Besides, even if such an incident had happened, it might have rated a lecture from a CO. Something like Janeway saying "yes, you were warned about Ferengi at the academy, but you could have been more diplomatic."
Not a formal reprimand, and certainly not denying a good officer the advancement he deserves for close to a decade.
And there's also the matter of Harry Kim not being the only ensign denied a promotion. He was just the most visible.
Not a formal reprimand, and certainly not denying a good officer the advancement he deserves for close to a decade.
And there's also the matter of Harry Kim not being the only ensign denied a promotion. He was just the most visible.
It had only been 7 years since The Last Outpost.
It's weird that the stuffy entrenched faculty would be so very informed about a benign race of Merchants who's arrival in this sector of the Alpha Quadrant had been eclipsed by THE BORG.
It's weird that the stuffy entrenched faculty would be so very informed about a benign race of Merchants who's arrival in this sector of the Alpha Quadrant had been eclipsed by THE BORG.
Actually, based on NCC-1701-D senior staff in TNG Season 1 the three lowest ranked officers would be a Lieutenant JG ○● (Yar) and two Ensigns (LaForge and Worf), although the assignments are a little different.
Worf and LaForge were never ensigns on TNG. They were Lt. j.g. in season 1. And Yar was a full Lt.
Correct. Worf was upped to full lieutenant in Season 2, and got the gold shirt and the permanent title of security chief.
He remained a full Lt. for six years before making LCDR, possibly due to the reprimand he received in "Reunion".
Geordi was helmsman and JG in S1, chief engineer and Lt. in S2, and LCDR from S3 on. He probably should have been a Commander in the movie era, as should Data.
Good news, though. Both eventually make captain: Geordi is seen to be one in "Timeless" (and it's unlikely Voyager's survival would have altered that), and Worf is revealed to be the Enterprise CO in the Picard lead-in novel.
He remained a full Lt. for six years before making LCDR, possibly due to the reprimand he received in "Reunion".
Geordi was helmsman and JG in S1, chief engineer and Lt. in S2, and LCDR from S3 on. He probably should have been a Commander in the movie era, as should Data.
Good news, though. Both eventually make captain: Geordi is seen to be one in "Timeless" (and it's unlikely Voyager's survival would have altered that), and Worf is revealed to be the Enterprise CO in the Picard lead-in novel.
Worf probably had a tougher time getting a command, though, due to what Sisko said in "CHANGE OF HEART".
Is the lead-in novel considered canon? Because novels haven't been considered as such in the past. (I never read it. Just curious.)
Is the lead-in novel considered canon? Because novels haven't been considered as such in the past. (I never read it. Just curious.)
That was mentioned in the novel, I believe. It took some doing on Picard's part to get Worf the post.
Of course the real holdout is Data, especially if you consider he was probably already in Starfleet since before most people on the ship were born.
About novels and other tie-in material, those are never canon. And of course data had been restored and made to captain (of the enterprise!) before the new Picard series reset that storyline.
About novels and other tie-in material, those are never canon. And of course data had been restored and made to captain (of the enterprise!) before the new Picard series reset that storyline.
Picard's autobiography had it happen as well, but under different circumstances. Data had already transferred his memories to B4, but the latter's rudimentary positron brain couldn't process them the way Data's could. However, Q showed up, and with a snap of his fingers restored Data to life in B4's body (upgraded him or something). Picard had mixed feelings... on the one hand, B4 had had a right to exist. On the other... well, Data was back.
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Canonically, yes. However, my post was in reply to:
So, if the roles are held by LT-JGs on Enterprise, it follows that Voyager would have Ensigns in those (or at least similar*) roles.
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