Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[Oddish]

Good points. I can only guess if my theory holds true that it wasn't so much about the crew not knowing about it, but Janeway's personal ethics and rules for such a relationship.

One recurring theme in Voyager is that it's impossible to keep any secrets on a ship that small.

And if part of Janeway's ethical parameters for carrying on a secret (or semi-secret) romance with a subordinate involves the destruction of said subordinate's career... well, that's some pretty twisted ethics.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

One recurring theme in Voyager is that it's impossible to keep any secrets on a ship that small.

And if part of Janeway's ethical parameters for carrying on a secret (or semi-secret) romance with a subordinate involves the destruction of said subordinate's career... well, that's some pretty twisted ethics.

Yep. But in this case, she would have told Harry and if he agreed to this, it would have been his decission.

 

[Oddish]

Again, Harry's actions in "Unimatrix Zero" and "Nightingale" refute this. If he had agreed to such a counterproductive attempt at deception, he would not have wondered why there was no little box on his chair.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Maybe Harry was a sleeper agent of the Borg Queen...

 

[Oddish]

Maybe Harry was a sleeper agent of the Borg Queen...

That actually would have been awesome. More awesome than killing him off, or promoting him, or having him find a girlfriend who wasn't a vampire, terrorist, corpse, 3-year-old, or disease-carrier.

Think about it: the boy scout, do no wrong, super squeaky clean junior officer and perpetual sidekick turns out to not only not be who he appears to be, but have a serious dark agenda. That would be a betrayal even more eye popping than Hans of the Southern Isles. "Oh, Kathryn. If only there was someone who really wanted to help you get home."

Unfortunately, that would have involved actual character development, so it's easy to see why they didn't do it.

 

[DonIago]

It still annoys me that the Borg Queen said something like, "See you soon Harry." and it was in the end utterly meaningless.

I'm amused by the idea of the Borg messing with Harry's head, but it doesn't seem consistent with their MO, and why mess with an ensign's head like that?

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Again, Harry's actions in "Unimatrix Zero" and "Nightingale" refute this. If he had agreed to such a counterproductive attempt at deception, he would not have wondered why there was no little box on his chair.

Or she really didn't tell him that she wasn't promoting him for these reasons and Harry didn't say anything, beside on these two occasions, because he didn't want to lose what he had with Janeway.

It still annoys me that the Borg Queen said something like, "See you soon Harry." and it was in the end utterly meaningless.

Could be another hint for Kimway. Maybe the Borg learnt somehow about this...

 

[Oddish]

It still annoys me that the Borg Queen said something like, "See you soon Harry." and it was in the end utterly meaningless.

Maybe it was like the "Harry's an alien" plot. Someone had an idea to actually develop him as a character, and TPTB shut them down.

Or she really didn't tell him that she wasn't promoting him for these reasons and Harry didn't say anything, beside on these two occasions, because he didn't want to lose what he had with Janeway.

That suggests that...
1. Harry and Janeway were secretly carrying on.
2. No one ever found out.
3. This despite the fact that Janeway was incredibly inept at covering it up.

1 is extremely dubious, but amusing to think about. 2 is pushing it, given Voyager's size. 3... I just can't buy it.

 

[Deks]

It still annoys me that the Borg Queen said something like, "See you soon Harry." and it was in the end utterly meaningless.

I'm amused by the idea of the Borg messing with Harry's head, but it doesn't seem consistent with their MO, and why mess with an ensign's head like that?

Yeah. I was hoping that there would have been more to that too... but as it turned out... nothing.

 

[suarezguy]

To me it seems pretty reasonable, at least not unreasonable, that Janeway thought giving Kim a promotion would go to his head.

 

[Oddish]

To me it seems pretty reasonable, at least not unreasonable, that Janeway thought giving Kim a promotion would go to his head.

Given that it's pretty much expected for an ensign to make lieutenant after two or three years... that's like saying that a third grader would get all puffed up from being promoted to fourth grade the following year.

What happened to Harry was more like that same kid getting an A average in third grade, but still having to repeat said grade a couple of times. And never receiving a satisfactory explanation as to why.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Tom Paris committed an act of terrorism, that is, not only did he violate the prime directive but he did it the worst possible way, by trying to blow up a few power plants and for that, he was sentenced to one month in the brig and demoted to ensign, compare that to Michael Burnham who for something similar was sentenced to life and demoted to nothing. So I'd say that was very lenient, yet he was still re-promoted before Harry! What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Oddish]

Tom Paris committed an act of terrorism, that is, not only did he violate the prime directive but he did it the worst possible way, by trying to blow up a few power plants and for that, he was sentenced to one month in the brig and demoted to ensign, compare that to Michael Burnham who for something similar was sentenced to life and demoted to nothing.

In fairness, Tom's actions would have saved a whole world (sort of), and Janeway's condemned it to self-destruction, a casualty of its people's shortsightedness. So I would say that he violated the Prime Directive in the best way, not the worst. Ergo, I do not begrudge Tom the little box on his chair. I have issues with only one thing: that Harry didn't get one as well.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In fairness, Tom's actions would have saved a whole world (sort of), and Janeway's condemned it to self-destruction, a casualty of its people's shortsightedness. So I would say that he violated the Prime Directive in the best way, not the worst. Ergo, I do not begrudge Tom the little box on his chair. I have issues with only one thing: that Harry didn't get one as well.

Extinction is how the universe stops asshole races from spreading their bad behaviour.

If you save a species from death, without changing their processes that made that death an all but certainty, then they are still going to die, except that it's later, when there's more of them, and they occupy more space and they take down more innocent people and space with them when they go.

Consider the Malon.

They pollute.

If you save them from choking on their pollution now, then they are going to continue to pollute for another century, taking out sectors and occupied planets, eviscerating the environment for another century and thousands of parsec that would have been safe if they had choked on their own filth when they were supposed to have.

Ditto for those water world people.

They need to rebuild the power station Tom destroyed, or people will die, and then their space water will perish, and they'll all still die, but maybe a generation later, so there's twice as many people to die.

Thanks Tom.

 

[Oddish]

Except it wasn't destroyed. Voyager prevented the DF from accomplishing its mission. The Ocean will disperse, and its occupants will be cast adrift, but probably won't die. It'll be like having your house burn down, with no insurance. You wind up living in your car for the next few years, until you can find another home.

All Tom accomplished was getting himself a rank reduction and 30 days in the brig.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Except it wasn't destroyed. Voyager prevented the DF from accomplishing its mission. The Ocean will disperse, and its occupants will be cast adrift, but probably won't die. It'll be like having your house burn down, with no insurance. You wind up living in your car for the next few years, until you can find another home.

All Tom accomplished was getting himself a rank reduction and 30 days in the brig.

Well, they're a bunch of assholes. The administrator, after he's been told that his "planet" will disappear in a few years, is only worried that he'll lose his position, and apparently, the people who elected him don't want to hear any bad news or they'll fire his ass. They're like someone with his house on fire who's worried about his electric bill!

 

[Oddish]

But that doesn't make Tom's attempt to save their "world" an evil act. Rather, it's a good act that they didn't deserve. And that's why I'm fine with Tom getting his rank restored. Harry was the character who was incompetently handled, not him.

 

[DonIago]

I think it was KRAD who noted in his review of the episode that Tom ends up taking the actions he takes based on very little information.

And very little information is what we have on hand to judge the rightness or wrongness of his actions in turn, though I certainly think he was acting with good intent.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I think it was KRAD who noted in his review of the episode that Tom ends up taking the actions he takes based on very little information.

And very little information is what we have on hand to judge the rightness or wrongness of his actions in turn, though I certainly think he was acting with good intent.

Yes, but you know what they say: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

 

[Oddish]

Yes, but you know what they say: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Well, consider the conflict. A good-intentioned Tom Paris was at odds with a good-intentioned Kathryn Janeway in this episode's denouement, after all.

Remember that Janeway's actions almost certainly led to the destruction of the ocean (a unique phenomenon) and its population becoming homeless, possibly for a very very long time. Paris's might have led to the continued existence of the ocean and its population keeping their home.

So... which good-intentioned road actually led to hell?