"Wah! This movie broke my size-comparison chart! I can't accept an updated look for the TOS era!"
Buy Star Trek: The Art of the Movie to see the design evolution of the new Enterprise.
Why does Abrams keep playing it safe?
- Thread starter brian577
- Start date
I honestly don't mean any disrespect. But how does anyone, really, care in the slightest bit about what the design of a prop in an sf movie looks like? Aren't there so many more interesting things in a movie to debate about? Maybe I'm missing something.
Not a prop, Ubik, a model. A prop is intended to be used on-set and is often handled by actors.
This model, in particular, represents the most iconic spaceship in the history of science fiction. And for many fans, the Starship Enterprise is as much a character in the show as Captain Kirk or Mister Spock.
You're right that there are many more interesting things in a movie to debate, but the hero ship from a science fiction movie remains one interesting thing about the film, and an important one to those of us who appreciate the beauty of man-made machines.
EDIT TO ADD:
As much as I gripe about Abrams' take on the 1701, the fact that she is the Enterprise in Trek 2009 is enough to make me get a lump in my throat when she first appears or get a huge grin when she "surfaces" from the atmosphere of Titan just before she takes on the Narada. That's not to say I'd feel the same way about a brick painted white with "NCC-1701" stencilled across one or two faces; there's at least something in common with the original.
I don't think it's a matter of Abrams playing it safe, I think it's a matter of Abrams just self-indulging what he likes into Star Trek that doesn't really benefit the franchise. JJ likes cars, he puts in a pointless car chase scene and tells ILM that he wants the Enterprise to look like a Hot Rod.
JJ loves Star Wars more than Star Trek, so he makes Star Trek a Star Wars movie. He not only throws in Star Wars references and easter eggs, but he literally has Star Wars plot points sewn into the characters backstory.
Even the technical side Star Trek isn't safe. JJ loves massive amounts of "self-aware" camera moments. Lens flares abound, the camera shakes, zooms, has dust on the lens and even interacts with the action going on screen (Debris from the Enterprise hitting the camera). Remember how all the science fiction creators from Battlestar Galactica and Firefly always talked about "We don't want our science fiction to look like the nice and smooth action from Star Trek"? Well JJ decided to make Star Trek like everything else.
And Kirk eating an apple during the Kobayashi Maru test? Wasn't meant to be a reference. It was there because JJ wanted Kirk to force the notion that Kirk is an a**hole down our throats, because JJ apparently loves a**holes as heroes.
His Star Trek is less Star Trek for what it was, and more a Star Trek the way people assume it is without ever having ever watched a single episode. Kirk always has sex with the green alien chicks? Never happened. Bones is always shouting and arguing? Sure, but some of his best scenes always had him more elegant than what he was here. He was able to talk Khan down when he had a knife thrust at his throat with just his whisper voice. Scotty is a comic relief character? No, he's just a good well meaning guy who takes his job very seriously. Chekov's accent is always misunderstood?........ Oh! And being a creature of logic will always make you an arrogant racist moron.
Also, I don't think JJ likes dealing with aliens that much. In his movie, the Romulans are the bad guys who need to be killed, and the Vulcans are the race that needs to be killed off. Only mankind prevails in every aspect since Kirk is human, and Spock doesn't succeed in anything until he starts acting human, which Prime Spock generously says "Put aside logic" because that never aided the crew from the original series.
He's not treating Star Trek as something that should be taken care of. He's treating it like a child would with someone else's toys.
JJ loves Star Wars more than Star Trek, so he makes Star Trek a Star Wars movie. He not only throws in Star Wars references and easter eggs, but he literally has Star Wars plot points sewn into the characters backstory.
Even the technical side Star Trek isn't safe. JJ loves massive amounts of "self-aware" camera moments. Lens flares abound, the camera shakes, zooms, has dust on the lens and even interacts with the action going on screen (Debris from the Enterprise hitting the camera). Remember how all the science fiction creators from Battlestar Galactica and Firefly always talked about "We don't want our science fiction to look like the nice and smooth action from Star Trek"? Well JJ decided to make Star Trek like everything else.
And Kirk eating an apple during the Kobayashi Maru test? Wasn't meant to be a reference. It was there because JJ wanted Kirk to force the notion that Kirk is an a**hole down our throats, because JJ apparently loves a**holes as heroes.
His Star Trek is less Star Trek for what it was, and more a Star Trek the way people assume it is without ever having ever watched a single episode. Kirk always has sex with the green alien chicks? Never happened. Bones is always shouting and arguing? Sure, but some of his best scenes always had him more elegant than what he was here. He was able to talk Khan down when he had a knife thrust at his throat with just his whisper voice. Scotty is a comic relief character? No, he's just a good well meaning guy who takes his job very seriously. Chekov's accent is always misunderstood?........ Oh! And being a creature of logic will always make you an arrogant racist moron.
Also, I don't think JJ likes dealing with aliens that much. In his movie, the Romulans are the bad guys who need to be killed, and the Vulcans are the race that needs to be killed off. Only mankind prevails in every aspect since Kirk is human, and Spock doesn't succeed in anything until he starts acting human, which Prime Spock generously says "Put aside logic" because that never aided the crew from the original series.
He's not treating Star Trek as something that should be taken care of. He's treating it like a child would with someone else's toys.
I think you go too far and I fail to see in which way except for the fate stuff and Pike being a mentor STXI resembles Wars but I agree with your fifth paragraph. Characters like Gaila are inspired by a certain distorted public image of TOS instead of TOS itself. She is not an Orion, she is a dumb green frat girl who fits the public image of "well, weren't there green girls Trek?"
And, yet, millions of people loved it, including a huge amount of the members here on a board for STAR TREK FANS.
Imagine that, other peoples opinions are different than yours. Amazing how that works.
That's what generally happens when you have a new team at the head of a production, they bring in their ideas and mix them up with the current.
As for the Enterprise, remember the Enterprise E? The Sovereign class ships looked like a Lamborghini Gallardo ten years before the Gallardo was ever built! It was described as "Going fast while standing still" or something like that. The ships will be based on something from real life, be it a car or spacecraft.
Not the comparison to Star Wars again...
So? The shaky cams look good and the lens flares are his own personal artistic flair.
The apple thing is true, but it's either happy coincidence or fate really and this Kirk, after being fatherless and taken up by an abusive uncle is an ass, but he's growing up as evidenced by the story.
Kirk was making out with one chick in the ENTIRE movie. Bones wasn't shouting and arguing in this movie, argumentative aye, but it wasn't constant. I will agree Scotty was a bit silly but eh, wasn't that bad. The "Wictor Wictor" scene was a joke making fun of Chekov's stereotypical accent, it was making fun of the original Trek for being racist.
Um, that's a big assumption seeing as how we saw a lot of aliens in this movie. The destruction of Vulcan was more of a statement to the audience saying, "We can do whatever we want, we're no longer bound by anything." It's the radical change that Trek has always needed. It was a shock to our system and by God, it hit hard.
"Logic is only the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end." Star trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
I think after all this, from the loss of Romulus to the destruction of Vulcan and even his own wisdom that he has gained over a hundred plus year existence, Spock (both really) has come to terms with his human side and has allowed logic and emotion to work together to a point. Some things go beyond logic. Old Spock understands this.
PS: Hi everybody! New here, kinda. Read around for months, decided to jump in finally!
Exactly. That was the whole point. If they wanted a Star Trek movie that looked and felt exactly like the previous ones, they would have just stuck with the previous creative team. So, yeah, play with the toys, get them dirty, shoot the movie in a different style, throw in some shaky-cam and lens flares, and have fun.
Better than letting the toys gather dust on a shelf, safely wrapped in plastic so they don't get scuffed a bit. Toys are meant to be played with, not handled reverently like fragile antiques.
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Too bad they decided that the sexism from the original series was worthy of carrying over. You know, with women being nothing but eye candy who don't have any important tasks to speak of except being the reward for one of the male characters. The film has no less than three scenes to establish how awesome Uhura is with communications, but when her time to shine finally comes.....
Uhura: Sir, I'm not detecting any Romulan transmissions, or any other transmissions.
Her role on the ship is reduced hearing nothing. When I think of someone who is the "Best of the best", it usually implies that this person can do something that no one else can, and that's not how all those establishing scenes paid off. I highly doubt that the previous communications officer who she replaced was so incompetent that he was incapable of understanding what nothing sounds like.
And don't bring up the Klingon Transmission contribution. For starters, that was done offscreen and it was Kirk who put it good use with Uhura completely dumbfounded as to how important it is. Cripes, Kirk literally has to put Uhura on the spot when Pike asks him how he figured this whole transmission thing out.
Also, every TOS character in this film who gets their moment in the spot light does so on their own initiative, on screen, and clearly showcasing that they're important to the whole scheme of things. Uhura lacks every single one of those aspects. She doesn't do anything important on her own, and the things she does do that are important were only possible because the guys figured out it. Uhura thinks that 47 Klingon ships being destroyed is only roommate chatter where as Kirk actually told Pike himself.
And this is another unfortunate bit about Uhura that NOBODY picked up on. Unlike every other TOS character, Uhura is the only crew member who is one of many other communications officers on the bridge. There's Hannity who actually had the better information than Uhura's "I can't hear anything", and there's Chekov who actually handles hailing other ships. So if we have one communications officer who gives better information and another who actually hails other ships, why is Uhura even here?
Everyone Here: Because she speaks Romulan.
That is actually true. Let's see how that panned out in the movie.
Nero: HELLO.
Yep. That language skill that the film kept bragging about sure came in handy. I'm sure all the guys who made the film knew what they were doing.
Commentary: JJ, you decided to have all the Romulans speak english throughout the whole movie. I just wanted to say that was brilliant.
There's JJ playing it safe in Star Trek. Reducing the only female TOS character's skill to nothing just so we don't have to read.... and getting praised for it.
^I didn't give a crap about what her job was. Saldana's role in this movie was more than what Nichelle Nichols was ever given to do in the entire history of Star Trek.
BTW, I just saw Prometheus. I liked it. However, I knew once the movie was over that if I agonizingly nitpicked over it, none of the movie would actually make much sense. So I decided not to do that.
BTW, I just saw Prometheus. I liked it. However, I knew once the movie was over that if I agonizingly nitpicked over it, none of the movie would actually make much sense. So I decided not to do that.
1bulma1
Lieutenant Commander
I agree a bit with the sexism thing although I don’t think it was that bad. Uhura to me showed her strength on two occasions:
1. when she forced Spock to put her on the enterprise...A place she earned unlike Kirk.
2. When she told Captain Pike that kirk was right about the Romilians attack on the federation ships.
I would add the Elevator scene where she hugs Spock and asked him what he needed. However that scene was very secretive and personal. It showed none of her professional qualities as a communication officer....so it doesn’t count for me
I hope she gets a bigger role in the second film and from the looks of it she may have.
In the leaked pictures of ST:XII, We saw her with a gun pointed at Cumberbatch’s character when he was beating up Spock.
Secondly another female (Alice Eve) is coming in...we will just have to wait and see what she brings to the table.
With all due respect, from your posts, and your posts from the past including on TrekMovie.com, it doesn't appear that the writers are the ones being sexist, it's you. The very thing you're claiming they did to "poor Uhura" could be said about several male characters as well, yet you've repeatedly chosen to make a victim out of the female character for the sake of being a martyr.
I believe Bob Orci himself even called you out on this months ago on TrekMovie.
I really think you need to step a few major steps back from calling people sexists, racists, and any other label when you're showing the exact same traits from things you're saying, even if you don't realize it.
Well I'm not dead yet and I don't plan on dying just to be a martyr on this topic.
And I have made many posts in other threads regarding the depiction of the other classic characters from Kirk to Chekov. The reason why Uhura gets me more than any of those characters is because she's the only female character in the whole movie that matters who isn't killed or quickly written off.
TOS was never my favorite Star Trek series, but it does have a lot of episodes and stories that I love and respect. But It did have elements that I didn't like that future Star Trek series were smart enough to move away from. Star Trek EVOLVED as a franchise, and the one area that did it well was giving more female characters better roles to play. And now that we're back in the TOS era with a lot of TOS problems dialed up to 11, I don't think it's that hard to see why I'm pretty upset that the one element I was glad to see improve in Star Trek gets thrown out.
Uhura's role is NOT the only thing I hate. It's just the thing I hate the most because it completely wipes out all that Star Trek has gained in the past decades. If you would like me to delve into other areas that I didn't like that instead of Uhura, I'll be more than glad to. You think giving Kirk his own command before he even graduates isn't playing it safe? Or even that bridge fight with Spock? I'm sure your angel of reason BOB will come and vindicate your opinion on how everything in the film was totally brilliant.
The only thing that sucked about Uhura was the miniskirt and the failure to realize that this was more of a sixties than a quintessential TOS thing.
"Hailing frequencies open, sir" and having to use a dictionary to translate Klingon, we saw more of Uhura's skills in the last movie than during 80 episodes and six movies. Furthermore she basically took over Scotty's role of "number four" (not in terms of rank but character relevance).
"Hailing frequencies open, sir" and having to use a dictionary to translate Klingon, we saw more of Uhura's skills in the last movie than during 80 episodes and six movies. Furthermore she basically took over Scotty's role of "number four" (not in terms of rank but character relevance).
<Scratches head and wonders> How can anyone find Troi, T'pol, and 7of9's Catsuits less sexist than TOS? I mean honestly, the miniskirts in TOS revealed alot of leg, and the alien babes had outfits with lots of strategically placed holes in the costumes, but, that doesn't compare with how revealing the catsuits were in later series and how much they turned the women into sex objects. And that's without even bringing up female Pon'Farr scenes and Enterprise's Decontamination scenes.
I guess that's another area where film makers play it safe. They put these unprofessional and childish characters on these big, top of the line ships and sell that as interesting an believable.
At least ENTERPRISE didn't turn the look of the Tholians into a suit the same way Prometheus turned that very alien looking thing in ALIEN into a suit. I know Handsome Squidward was creepy, but he's a cartoon from a kid's television show and has no business being in a dark science fiction movie.
We did have Yar for a time, but Denise left the show because nobody knew what to do with a female character that wasn't overly emotional about a male member of the crew (Troi with Riker and Beverly with Wesley/Picard).
Seven on the other hand works as a character that she's been build up to be. She does have some really good episodes (Until the last season of course). It's just... well... her suit is totally from a different department that should have been shot. If she is to handle critical stations on the ship as a crew member, she should be wearing a uniform. Heck, that one time paradox episode with her in a uniform was light years better than her skin tight outfit. Same goes for T'Pol, although her writing was far more lacking.
This is why I'm always happy that there will be a Deep Space Nine to fall back on. And there's a lot more to like outside of the improved female roles.
This is far more sexist than any catsuits (which do not reveal anything) or people sitting in decon in underwear. It always amazes me how people who complain about the utter sexism of VOY and ENT can totally suppress that every second episode of the first show of The Great Pig of the Galaxy featured a woman in Theiss wear.
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