Why Doctor Who is a MESS

[starsuperion]

But why? Shouldn't we be celebrating diversity? Take for example; discrimination against People of Color. If you have two equally qualified candidates for a job, one of them being a black man and the other white, without stuff like the Equal Opportunity Act, among other progressive legislation, what incentive would any employer have had to specifically choose the minority candidate?
It's true that we're a far cry from the blatant discrimination of the 50's and 60's; but there is still plenty of less subtle discrimination out there. The whole purpose of being 'politically correct' is to treat ALL people, regardless of race or gender equally.

That premise assumes all minorities are viewed as less than whites, and that they need an unfair advantage to compete. Not all employers are white. Not all employers only hire white people. To assume that a person of color has less of a chance then a white person is to assume they arent capable, and need a hand up. This is racist by itself. Why not let merit dictate someone's worth over ideology and perceived racism? This is the future. We should all look at each other equally.

 

[Shawnster]

My main issues: 10 episodes instead of 13/12, a yearly interval between seasons, and vanilla storytelling. At least if it had been as breathtaking as series 1, 4 or 5, I'd be able to forgive it. As is, fuck this. I want to see the Doctor every year.

This. Every time I see the question about rating Jodi Whittaker's performance, my reaction is "I haven't seen enough to say." She barely got going and the season was over and we have this incredibly long gap. What is there to critique?

 

[jaime]

Sorry, I might have missed something.

Do we have year by year sales breakdowns available for Dr Who merchandise?

Probablu will turn up. But the reality is there on the shelf... There isnt merch to buy. You can contrast that with previous years.

 

[jaime]

This. Every time I see the question about rating Jodi Whittaker's performance, my reaction is "I haven't seen enough to say." She barely got going and the season was over and we have this incredibly long gap. What is there to critique?

The Big Bang would have been a fine finale to all of televised Who, and was a great finale to Smiths first year.
I cannot say the same this season.
I thought Smith was too young, the design choices silly. By the time he was on Starship UK, i was won over.

 

[STEPhon IT]

This. Every time I see the question about rating Jodi Whittaker's performance, my reaction is "I haven't seen enough to say." She barely got going and the season was over and we have this incredibly long gap. What is there to critique?

She will find her Doctor, I think the companions needs to be reduced or have individual companions along with Whittaker for a single episode. Producing Doctor Who is expensive and taking a break is fine so the production can write the kind of episodes where the money can be spent. As for the BBC, they have to bring the schedule back to Saturdays and relaunch the X-Mas specials; New Years just doesn't feel like Doctor Who to me - and also I'm still partying and just not in the mood for a children show.

 

[Jedman67]

That premise assumes all minorities are viewed as less than whites, and that they need an unfair advantage to compete. Not all employers are white. Not all employers only hire white people. To assume that a person of color has less of a chance then a white person is to assume they arent capable, and need a hand up. This is racist by itself. Why not let merit dictate someone's worth over ideology and perceived racism? This is the future. We should all look at each other equally.

Here in the US, racism and sexism are still rampant. Until such time as sexism and racism are eliminated, equal protections in the law are still necessary.

 

[jaime]

Here in the US, racism and sexism are still rampant. Until such time as sexism and racism are eliminated, equal protections in the law are still necessary.

Equal protections in law are wise, whether they are still necessary or otherwise.
It’s not ‘political correctness’, it’s equality.

Positive discrimination is a different question, and one I can’t be bothered to touch it’s such a ridiculous hot potato.

Jodie’s casting had nothing to do with either...hopefully. It’s the kind of thing that’s supposed to be a creative edition. The role of Doctor Who is not like being an MP or one of the professions after all.
Otherwise, can we start a campaign for a London-born working class Blue Peter presenter? I think Andy was the closest we got, but I have a feeling he was born in Africa. Cbeebies is full of the provinces since Sid stopped presenting....Andy (the other Andy, Andy on Blue Peter changed his professional name to match his real name years ago...and left BP about a decade ago.) is a bit generic Home Counties....

In fact...

Have we ever had working class London Doctor?
I want to say Hartnell or Troughton, but have a feeling they were from further out. Either way, it’s been a while, we’ve had two northerners, two Scots, two Liverpudlians, and I think Pertwee was West Country.

Edit: Three Scots. Forgot Capaldi for a mo.

 

[Jedman67]

'Politically Correct' has become a slur, if you will, of the far right resisting the inclusiveness of progressives. It's a loaded term.

And Jamie; Rose was meant to be a working class London girl; although Billie Piper is not.

 

[jaime]

'Politically Correct' has become a slur, if you will, of the far right resisting the inclusiveness of progressives. It's a loaded term.

And Jamie; Rose was meant to be a working class London girl; although Billie Piper is not.

To paraphrase Alanis Morrisette, Rose Is not the Doctor.
Many many companions have been Londoners.

‘Politically Correct’ has been a term for criticising all sorts, and doing all sorts...rumour has it that it was originally supposed to be a form of subtle sociological ...well, terrorism I suppose, in its mildest form...invented by the ‘left’ way back when. Like Cold War or earlier way back when. This of course may be true, or some right wing propaganda.
I do find it an intriguing little sentence, the idea of something not strictly correct (or true) but it is political (i.e gets you liked/voted for) to treat it as such. Or that it is correct in a given political circle, whilst not given a figgins about elsewhere, possibly where it might actually matter.
Otherwise we don’t need the couplet do we?
It is simply correct that men and women are paid equally for performing the same job, no need for ‘politically’. The appending of the word can make a lie of anything, because hey, politics.
Problem is, it did seem to start out as sort of policing... ‘you can’t say that it’s not politically correct’ which then got picked up by people saying something mildly unpleasant, or worse, or sometimes just a faux pas ‘ooh I can’t say that, it’s not politically correct’. Soon comedians could just say the last bit and let the audience giggle at whatever they made up their head.
Then you get the nostalgia phase ‘couldn’t make that these days, it’s not politically correct’ about some stuff that frankly shouldn’t have been made then (or in some cases, would not be made today because well...it isn’t politically correct...even if those with nostalgia don’t get it. I mean I can’t stand seventies sit coms, but they are not always quite as people remember.)
Now we are back at the tribal war stage of its use.

But as I say, there is a difference between it and equality.

We have great fun with the idea of ‘political correctness gone mad!’ Over here. Sometimes it’s mildy right wing grumpy, sometimes it’s actual right wing grumpy, more often than not it’s just some affront to common sense done with a hint of jobsworth, and quite often, it’s a load of bollocks...one way or another. These days it sadly descends into frothing looms fighting over something quite often unimportant...sometimes humorously related to health and safety (which seems a closely related area.)
Little things like ages spitfire pilots not being allowed to get in the planes again on anniversaries, because it would be too dangerous...which as you can imagine leads to a smirk from some old chaps (and a very famous few chapesses) about the safety considerations last time they had to get into one.

Edit: https://www.britannica.com/topic/political-correctness

It seems it was not right wing propaganda, unless there’s something I don’t know about Brittanica. (Ok, there’s lots of things I don’t know about Brittanica, and between Disney, Ford, and Marie Stopes, nothing surprises me anymore...but I don’t think Brittanica are right wing.)

 

[Awesome Possum]

'Politically Correct' has become a slur, if you will, of the far right resisting the inclusiveness of progressives. It's a loaded term.

And Jamie; Rose was meant to be a working class London girl; although Billie Piper is not.

Generally the people you see attacking political correctness are really just against no longer being able to be racist, sexist and bigoted without a negative reaction from most people. They miss the “good old days” and “telling it how it is”, which was just openly using slurs and saying every awful thought that popped in their head. Now they have to hide it and deal with the fact that all those people and groups they hate are treated with some level of decency and respect.

 

[Jayson1]

I think political correctness has become such a big issue is because nobody is on the same page anymore both on what it is and what you do about it. The cancel culture being the biggest issure because starts to impact free speech and feels to big brotherish. It doesn't help that actually makes things better because it is something alt righters use to recruit and people still the same things only in code. I don't it was luck we got Obama,gay marrige,end of don't ask,don't tell before PC stuff started to increase which has led to Trumpism and a fractured Democrat party were Obama isn't good enough and all of it pumped up by clickbait and Russia who has been gaslighting both sides for awhile now. Jason

 

[jaime]

I think political correctness has become such a big issue is because nobody is on the same page anymore both on what it is and what you do about it. The cancel culture being the biggest issure because starts to impact free speech and feels to big brotherish. It doesn't help that actually makes things better because it is something alt righters use to recruit and people still the same things only in code. I don't it was luck we got Obama,gay marrige,end of don't ask,don't tell before PC stuff started to increase which has led to Trumpism and a fractured Democrat party were Obama isn't good enough and all of it pumped up by clickbait and Russia who has been gaslighting both sides for awhile now. Jason

Had to look up cancel culture.

Man we are drifting into Stalinism with a dash of old fashioned Puritanism ain’t we? Well, the western world anyway.
This is what happens when you celebrate with Turkey and it ain’t Christmas.
Sigh.

 

[Jayson1]

Had to look up cancel culture.

Man we are drifting into Stalinism with a dash of old fashioned Puritanism ain’t we? Well, the western world anyway.
This is what happens when you celebrate with Turkey and it ain’t Christmas.
Sigh.

Maybe but it is all about control and the rich and powerful have figued out the internet is most effective form of misinformation and brain washing ever conceived by humans. Get everyone addicted to the experience then use the info they have on everbody since they have all our personal data to constantly expose people to news that will constantly keep people in a state of anger. If your on right here is story about crazy lady making manspreading chairs or there is going to be a muslim is Star Wars. If your on the left here is Trump's latest racism that is all that different the others or were going to show you dumb white people caught on tape or police shootings until your bleeding out of your eyes. Thus people end up geeting paranoid and become more willing to listen to exploiters or surrender rights or priciples to feel safe. Jason

 

[jaime]

Maybe but it is all about control and the rich and powerful have figued out the internet is most effective form of misinformation and brain washing ever conceived by humans. Get everyone addicted to the experience then use the info they have on everbody since they have all our personal data to constantly expose people to news that will constantly keep people in a state of anger. If your on right here is story about crazy lady making manspreading chairs or there is going to be a muslim is Star Wars. If your on the left here is Trump's latest racism that is all that different the others or were going to show you dumb white people caught on tape or police shootings until your bleeding out of your eyes. Thus people end up geeting paranoid and become more willing to listen to exploiters or surrender rights or priciples to feel safe. Jason

We were told the internet and globalisation would create this wonderful thing. But the melting pot homogenised, (Which is why they call these things melting pots, rather than a stew pot, which is what people really want) and frankly Americanised and Westernised. And I am not sure that is working so well, especially now we are also polarised.
That’s a lot of ised.

 

[jaime]

She will find her Doctor, I think the companions needs to be reduced or have individual companions along with Whittaker for a single episode. Producing Doctor Who is expensive and taking a break is fine so the production can write the kind of episodes where the money can be spent. As for the BBC, they have to bring the schedule back to Saturdays and relaunch the X-Mas specials; New Years just doesn't feel like Doctor Who to me - and also I'm still partying and just not in the mood for a children show.

The thing is, the production staff don’t seem to be in the mood either.

 

[Jayson1]

We were told the internet and globalisation would create this wonderful thing. But the melting pot homogenised, (Which is why they call these things melting pots, rather than a stew pot, which is what people really want) and frankly Americanised and Westernised. And I am not sure that is working so well, especially now we are also polarised.
That’s a lot of ised.

I would say Disneyfied. They want everthing safe and sanatized. A family friendly experience even though we are not a family friendly species. Some reject it others really reject it and lash out because of it. Jason

 

[jaime]

I would say Disneyfied. They want everthing safe and sanatized. A family friendly experience even though we are not a family friendly species. Some reject it others really reject it and lash out because of it. Jason

I think the problem is, in those terms at least, is that everyone disagrees over what ‘safe’ is.
I’ve not exactly grown up online like kids now do, but it hit in my teenage years.
In retrospect, I think the internet has actually been a net negative for humanity.
We all get to wear masks, and treat other humans like NPCs in a game. It’s easy to be an arsehole when we are pretty sure we won’t get a thump for it, or to not consider another humans feelings because (a) we are a mama interacting with another mask and (b) it’s not real time, there’s no empathy response.
When you then throw in a sort of solipsistic culture, and an aggressive underlying ‘this is how my culture has things, therefore it is all that is relevant’ it becomes even more problematical. It’s really easy to see too, sometimes funnily so.
Look at thinks like the understanding of the word ‘cunt’ as an insult...it’s not really a gendered insult in quite a few places, but eventually it will become one because of force of numbers from a culture where it is. Then there’s the whole ‘Paki’ debacle a few years ago, where in the US it isn’t a racial insult, but over here it is. Two words, with a lot of baggage, being fought over because of cultural supremacy in the English speaking digital world.

It’s the same here in the discussion around Who. It is something completely different to UK fans compared to the rest of the world, and there’s also generational influences at play. Lived experience basically makes it into very different things for different people.

 

[starsuperion]

Here in the US, racism and sexism are still rampant. Until such time as sexism and racism are eliminated, equal protections in the law are still necessary.

Sexism and racism have been present since the days of the Romans, Egypt, the Indus Valley and beyond. Its human nature, and will most likely never be fully eliminated. What is the solution? Governmental policies that halt such activity and encourage equalization of treatment. Outcome and effort should determine the success, not Arbitrary means. As far as the US being rampant with sexism and racism....are you sure you live in the US? Because I do, and I dont see it, except in the warped minds of media, and psycho individuals who try to incite as much. For us "normies" I've never had an issue and have a large diverse group of friends, who joke around about such things, but our POV is all of that stuff is behind us, and mostly the perview of the old who,can't get past their own biases based on past events. Like I said, we look at ourselves as being in the future, where such nonsense is a thing of the past. Politicians and media want you to believe its an issue, so they can capitlize on your fear, anger, and vulnerability. A healthy practice is to,ignore media, and politicians who peddle such propaganda, and go out and enjoy people. Live amongst your friends, in,diverse congregations, and see that life here is,not as bad as they portray.

 

[Spot261]

Sexism and racism have been present since the days of the Romans, Egypt, the Indus Valley and beyond. Its human nature, and will most likely never be fully eliminated. What is the solution? Governmental policies that halt such activity and encourage equalization of treatment. Outcome and effort should determine the success, not Arbitrary means. As far as the US being rampant with sexism and racism....are you sure you live in the US? Because I do, and I dont see it, except in the warped minds of media, and psycho individuals who try to incite as much. For us "normies" I've never had an issue and have a large diverse group of friends, who joke around about such things, but our POV is all of that stuff is behind us, and mostly the perview of the old who,can't get past their own biases based on past events. Like I said, we look at ourselves as being in the future, where such nonsense is a thing of the past. Politicians and media want you to believe its an issue, so they can capitlize on your fear, anger, and vulnerability. A healthy practice is to,ignore media, and politicians who peddle such propaganda, and go out and enjoy people. Live amongst your friends, in,diverse congregations, and see that life here is,not as bad as they portray.

Racism is dead you say?

How are the demographics of the prison system looking? How about those for victims of police shootings? How many black senators are left in the Republican party? No issues with white supremacists?

Sexism too?

Very respectful gentleman you have as POTUS? Doesn't treat women like meat or anything?

 

[StCoop]

Outcome and effort should determine the success, not Arbitrary means.

And yet, to give one example, when people do tests where they send the exact same resume out for a job just changing the name on it, people with western names are far more likely to be called for an interview over people with Asian, African or Arabic names. (In that order.)

I've worked in Payroll departments in companies both big and small and can tell you that women (and non-white men) absolutely get paid less for doing exactly the same job as white men.

It's easy to claim these these things don't exist when they don't effect you directly.