Why do you think Beltran was/has been so critical?

[darkwing_duck1]

Teya said:

ETA: And you really don't want to get exodus and I on the subject of "Tattoo" and the ridiculous nonsense that American Indians are descended from space aliens and that there's a whole tribe of Random Forehead Aliens living in the Central American rainforest.

Oh. My. God. Forehead aliens in Central America? And Indians are descended from them, despite pretty solid DNA evidence and abundant common sense that, well, they are just human beings whose ancestors migrated to the Americas a few thousand years before Europeans, Africans, and Asians?

I've got to keep watching this show--it's full of surprises!

The thing is, that there ARE aboriginals who claim ancestry from space aliens or to have interacted with them.

Here's one article (about aboriginal Australians and "sky people"):

http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/...iame-sky-beings-and-the-mighty-men-of-renown/

Various other cultures had mythological constructs that had connotations and connections tied to extraterrestrials, as in the Anunnaki.

See also:

http://www.netscientia.com/chinese_hindu.html

among others.

(For the record, I make no claims as to the actual truth or falsity of said claims, I merely note their existence.)

 

[Listener4]

Chakotay, like almost everything on Voyager was wasted potential.

 

[Anwar]

He needed more work done on him to begin with. Making him have no grudge against the Feds and a former Fleeter who wasn't a traitor like Eddington might've worked if they had his own Maquis think of him as a sell-out and the conflict was less Chakotay vs Janeway as it was Chakotay vs his own people.

Or, just not make him a Fleeter.

 

[exodus]

Teya said:

ETA: And you really don't want to get exodus and I on the subject of "Tattoo" and the ridiculous nonsense that American Indians are descended from space aliens and that there's a whole tribe of Random Forehead Aliens living in the Central American rainforest.

Oh. My. God. Forehead aliens in Central America? And Indians are descended from them, despite pretty solid DNA evidence and abundant common sense that, well, they are just human beings whose ancestors migrated to the Americas a few thousand years before Europeans, Africans, and Asians?

I've got to keep watching this show--it's full of surprises!

The thing is, that there ARE aboriginals who claim ancestry from space aliens or to have interacted with them.

Here's one article (about aboriginal Australians and "sky people"):

http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/...iame-sky-beings-and-the-mighty-men-of-renown/

Various other cultures had mythological constructs that had connotations and connections tied to extraterrestrials, as in the Anunnaki.

See also:

http://www.netscientia.com/chinese_hindu.html

among others.

(For the record, I make no claims as to the actual truth or falsity of said claims, I merely note their existence.)

Yes, I believe in the possiblity of life on other worlds too, however I don't believe my race/culture to be mentally inferior and required alien enhancing to make my race/culture smart as the episode implies. It implies all the great civilizations of art, mathmatics & science of all the cultures of all the natives of both the Americas is due alien influence and not of our own intelligence.

 

[teya]

Teya said:
Oh. My. God. Forehead aliens in Central America? And Indians are descended from them, despite pretty solid DNA evidence and abundant common sense that, well, they are just human beings whose ancestors migrated to the Americas a few thousand years before Europeans, Africans, and Asians?

I've got to keep watching this show--it's full of surprises!

The thing is, that there ARE aboriginals who claim ancestry from space aliens or to have interacted with them.

Here's one article (about aboriginal Australians and "sky people"):

http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/...iame-sky-beings-and-the-mighty-men-of-renown/

Various other cultures had mythological constructs that had connotations and connections tied to extraterrestrials, as in the Anunnaki.

See also:

http://www.netscientia.com/chinese_hindu.html

among others.

(For the record, I make no claims as to the actual truth or falsity of said claims, I merely note their existence.)

Yes, I believe in the possiblity of life on other worlds too, however I don't believe my race/culture to be mentally inferior and required alien enhancing to make my race/culture smart as the episode implies. It implies all the great civilizations of art, mathmatics & science of all the cultures of all the natives of both the Americas is due alien influence and not of our own intelligence.

Not to mention that we required alien DNA to acquire language--something all other humans were able to do on their own.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I've read stories of certain tribes such as in Africa that had some advanced knowledge of astronomy, such as where distant stars were located and such, and that western astronomers were very curious about it.

This knowledge would require very advanced telescopes even for western science.

Where they got it this knowledge, is anyone's guess.

http://www.unmuseum.org/siriusb.htm



But on the other hand Trek seems to overdo the "ancient alien contact with earth people" thing.

I think the reaction comes from some fans is because it's so cliche.

Even after the contact with these aliens they were still portrayed somewhat as being somewhat "primitive".

They did something similar with the dinosaur theme too..



Why not have them living in modern style houses with clothes?

 

[sevenstars]

Seems to me I read a couple of years ago, that he said the whole Voyager project kind of went south on him at the beginning; that he signed on to work with Genevieve Bujold, and then of course she left.

There was a lot of silliness connected with his character from the beginning, and it only got worse. Maybe natural to want to disconnect oneself from it.

 

[Galekarens]

Seems to me I read a couple of years ago, that he said the whole Voyager project kind of went south on him at the beginning; that he signed on to work with Genevieve Bujold, and then of course she left.

Oh, lol, like he was such a "star" so he would only work with someone like Ms. Bujold, ha. He was lucky Voyager ended up w/ a skilled actress like Kate Mulgrew who worked her tush off to make Janeway a viable character, which helped keep the show on the air (and save his job). It kind of seemed like he thought a little too much of himself, especially at the end when he wasn't quite the hottie anymore, and he still wanted C. to get paired up w/ the Borg Babe. Well, he got his wish, too bad he otherwise seemed so bitter after actually having a decent-paying gig for years, something most actors would be happy to have had. IMHLO, a bit much in the protesting.

PS, sorry, didn't mean to be snarky, but that last tidbit kind of put me over the edge, seemed a touch superior, but YMMV, oh well.

 

[DonIago]

Is there something wrong with wanting to work with a particular actor and then being disappointed when they don't make the final cut?

I don't recall Retro saying anything to imply that Beltran thought Mulgrew sucked by comparison or such.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Here's my issue with Beltran. This following piece is from an interview with Bryan Fuller who wrote for DS9 and Voyager. He also wrote one of my cave Voyager episodes Workforce. But back to main point:

DRE:I was watching Wonderfalls and it’s so wild that I just couldn’t believe it ever got on a major network. This is a show that makes Dead Like Me seem normal and that’s a compliment. Was the fact that it was such a bizarre show, known amongst the actors?
BF:I think they got that it was special and it was great working with this cast because they were so enthusiastic about the work. Actors aren’t always enthusiastic about what they’re doing. On Star Trek: Voyager, Robert Beltran would be mocking the dialogue and the writers on the dailies. Wonderfalls was a situation where everyone was excited about reading the scripts. It wasn’t about going through it and counting lines but what story was being told. It was special in that way.

So here's my issue.

If he had such a problem with the scripts why not TALK to the writers rather than whining and moaning about it. Bob Picardo actually talked to them. And didn't he write Life Line? The one where the EMH meets Dr. Zimmerman?

Now, I'm not saying he should have written an episode. But maybe if he had, I dunno, TRIED to talk to the writer's rather than complaining he could have maybe done something.

 

[Harvey]

Isn't "Lifeline" the only episode of any STAR TREK television series to be written by one of the series regulars? Not exactly a big opportunity there (as opposed to directing, which was certainly open to most regulars who were interested).

As for not talking to the writers, it seems unlikely that Beltran didn't have conversations with them. THIS interview, for example, has the actor indicating he spoke with the writers, in fact.

 

[Mareika]

Just found this quote from an RB interview.

"The fans are generally great. Fans of 'Star Trek' are intelligent and support the show because they believe that it is good, positive television. There is no gratuitous violence or sex. It is good, one-hour morality plays. [...] Fans are rarely intrusive as only a small minority cross the line."

Sounds good, I think.


I`ve also heard that he has been very nice to the fans at Dragon Con this year.

 

[propita]

Any pics of the actors present at Dragon Con?

 

[Python Trek]

You know, as I recall, 90% of the publicity photos for VOY's first season featured just three characters: Janeway, Chakotay, and Tuvok. I was under the impression that the show would focus on them, and that the others (a young nurse, a holographic doctor, a greenhorn ensign, a crusty alien cook, etc.) were to form a sort of ensemble back-up, just as Scotty and the gang did for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. The TNG and DS9 publicity shots had always showed their whole casts, but with VOY, it was almost always just Mulgrew, Beltran, and Russ. Maybe Beltran honestly thought this series was going to be a starring vehicle for him, and was deeply disappointed when it turned out to be otherwise?

 

[jimoinj]

Chakotay's character was explored in early seasons, but in later seasons he was almost completely ignored, to an unprecedented extent for a Star Trek first officer. He was almost an extra in some episodes, with very few lines let alone involvement in the plot. So I feel his criticism was understandable. He has said on record that he did enjoy parts of Voyager and wouldn't be against reappearing in Star Trek if they did something good with his character.

 

[DarthTom]

Chakotay's character was explored in early seasons, but in later seasons he was almost completely ignored, to an unprecedented extent for a Star Trek first officer. He was almost an extra in some episodes, with very few lines let alone involvement in the plot. So I feel his criticism was understandable. He has said on record that he did enjoy parts of Voyager and wouldn't be against reappearing in Star Trek if they did something good with his character.

Outside of screen time for Beltran, part of the problem IMHO with Chakotay's character to begin with was that he was cast as a Maquee [sp?] and quickly the writers developed into someone who would so easily go along with Star Fleet rules and regulations. I'd imagine anyone that stepped outside of Federation rules and regulations would generally be more combative and less of a pussy to Janeway.

The writers IMHO missed a huge opportunity to create more conflict.

 

[Anwar]

Well, Chakotay was a former Fleeter and not even a traitor like Eddington so it DID make sense he'd get along with the Fleeters better.

If they had made him some civilian from the DMZ or even part of a Separatist movement that existed before the DMZ then we have someone as a better counterpart to Janeway.

 

[Mareika]

Any pics of the actors present at Dragon Con?

Yes, here are some pictures.

And here`s a link to a very nice Robert/Garrett picture
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hwendeln/5016406596/lightbox/

 

[froot]

Chakotay's character was explored in early seasons, but in later seasons he was almost completely ignored, to an unprecedented extent for a Star Trek first officer. He was almost an extra in some episodes, with very few lines let alone involvement in the plot. So I feel his criticism was understandable. He has said on record that he did enjoy parts of Voyager and wouldn't be against reappearing in Star Trek if they did something good with his character.

But the episodes that focused on his character early on (with a couple exceptions) were not very good. The only cool parts of Tattoo, for instance, were the Doc and that neat tornado thing.

Plus I didn't feel like the guy was trying very hard at his acting... even early on. He seems like he's good - when he feels like it. It would have been great if they covered his past a la Pathways - it's a very interesting story. But he would have needed to be less sedate or he would have ruined it.

It's the chicken and the egg thing - did they not write for him because he never took his work seriously, or did he not take his work seriously because they didn't write for him?

 

[propita]

The only cool parts of Tattoo, for instance, were the Doc and that neat tornado thing.

On the contrary, Beltran looked very nice shirtless. Too bad a body double was used for the rear shots.