Why do you rank TFF highly?

[pfontaine2]

I've been vocal in my support for TFF over many other fan favorites, especially TUC which I found very disappointing. So why TFF over other films? First, I'll acknowledge the things that didn't work for me...the forced humor of the campfire scenes, the awkward situations some characters/actors have to get through (Scotty hitting his head, Uhura's fan dance etc) and some pretty poorly conceived characters such as the three ambassadors.

But those negatives are outweighed by the positives:
I think Shatner had some excellent ideas which were well executed. Working closely with his Director of Photography, he created beautiful and dynamic compositions throughout the film especially during the prologue on Nimbus III in addition to other scenes throughout the film.

We actually go somewhere in this film. Yes, other films went to VGer, went to Ceti Alpha 5 or Vulcan but I got a real sense of traveling to someplace interesting by going to Nimbus III and eventually to Shakari.

Part of this feeling of traveling is due in large part to the scenes in the officer's lounge which are amongst my favorite. I'm not talking about Sybok's revealing our hero's inner pain, but the scene where Kirk and McCoy find Spock in contemplation. I don't know why exactly but the star field outside the windows looks "real". I know it was projected but I always get a feeling that the ship is actually traveling and moving forward at a terrific velocity. Spock is literally "lost amongst the stars" in this scene and I find it quite beautiful.

Yes, as others have mentioned, this movie feels the closest to an episode. It's an adventure for once, not some galactic or earthly threat. It's just another "mission" and I find it very exciting.

The search for "God" is very well handled, though I don't buy how Sybok wins over the Bridge crew so easily. The last act on Shakari is fantastic, punctuated by Kirk's classic "What does God need with a Starship" line. It's classic Kirk and results in the climax of the film where Sybok redeems himself for others. In some respects, Sybok becomes a Christ figure, sacrificing himself so his friends can live, not to redeem them from their sins but to redeem himself for his own. Being a religious individual, I find this a very satisfying conclusion to this characters story.

I could write more but those are my thoughts. In a nutshell, I find the film fun like the original series was fun. It's not grand or epic or amazing, it's a fun adventure story well told (though I do wish some elements had been cut out...eesh that fight with the Cat Dancer makes no sense at all).

 

[XCV330]

I rank it higher than Tommy Wiseau's "The Room" but in fairness I have watched the Room many more times than TFF.

 

[Lance]

I think Shatner wanted to make the kind of Star Trek film that many wanted to see made. He just couldn't pull it off at the time.

Agreed. In fact, it always seemed to me that Shatner was leaning heavily on a Star Trek feel -- he undeniably 'gets' Star Trek, and was evoking a kind of wistful 20 years later version of The Original Series -- and on paper at least, every element is there. But the execution, for many reasons, falls short.

As for me, the elements I like are:

- The idea of Nimbus III. I find it believable that this attempt at a neutral colony that was jointly operared by all three of the major Alpha Quadrant powers was set up during optimistic TOS era Trek, just as I can dig that 20+ years later a more cynical mindset has led to it being a place where those major powers send their worst ambassadors to slowly piss away what's left of their career before retirement. I find that setup fascinating, and would watch a Star Trek series that was just about that: the naive young Romulan lady coming in, full of hope and opportunity, cleaning up this old town and reminding everyone why they're there in the first place.

- The Enterprise-A bridge. It looks suitably modern, a halfway house between the original series and the Next Gen aesthetics, in a way I feel it looks better than it does in Star Trek VI. I also like seeing the main shuttlebay, which actually managed to look a lot like an updated version of the one seen in TOS.

- Sybok is a cool idea. Laurence Luckinbill (sp?) also plays him well, a great combination of belief in his cause and a whimsical touch that is quite subtle and charming. I think the only element I'd abandon is him being a half brother of Spock. Once Nimoy had flat out refused to play a version of his character who betrays Kirk, this notion that Sybok was a long lost relation was kind of unecessary and pointless.

- But on that note, the interplay between Kirk, Spock and McCoy is literally perfect in this movie. It's about as close to the classic trinity as we get in the movies, the campfire scenes are just beautifully executed bookends, and again, it feels like Shatner absolutely 'gets' that this was the glue that held Star Trek: The Original Series together, these three guys. They are so comfortable in each other's presence, both as actors and in-character, that some of their exchanges have the perfect timing of a sitcom, one line after another, the chemistry just bouncing off of each other. Again, I feel like we get good bits of Kirk-Spock, Kirk-McCoy, and Spock-McCoy in the other movies, but Star Trek V is almost the only one that really gives us Kirk-Spock-McCoy, as it appeared in TOS, but seasoned with age. If that makes sense.

 

[suarezguy]

I think you've got to love "If you want to punish [Spock], why don't you throw him in the brig?"

 

[TheEvilDM]

I always liked this movie and I rate it up there as its one of the first movies I saw with out parental supervision.. I was just just about to start freshmen year in High School... and I went to a showing that everyone actually dressed up for. So.. I have those memories.

 

[Qonundrum]

I've been vocal in my support for TFF over many other fan favorites, especially TUC which I found very disappointing. So why TFF over other films?

Because it's a curate's egg mixture of novel ideas, of which not all fall flat, and studio edicts. A curate's egg, or perhaps a curate's chicken - not sure which came first but *plop* both of them are here.

First, I'll acknowledge the things that didn't work for me...the forced humor of the campfire scenes, the awkward situations some characters/actors have to get through (Scotty hitting his head, Uhura's fan dance etc) and some pretty poorly conceived characters such as the three ambassadors.

The beans line made me think of Blazing Saddles, though I don't want to be shown something that makes me think of something else. I'd rather just watch the something else if that's the purported allure of the thing. But Scotty's "ironic" comedy was horrible. Chekov and Sulu getting lost was no less asinine. It's been said it's Paramount that wanted the comedy routine because it worked so well in STIV. Can Shatner take the blame for this? I'm leaning toward "No".

The fan dance was definitely letting Uhura do something new for her character but did it succeed in any positive way? (They did resort to unconventional means to cause a distraction... but that could be achieved via many means.)

The anti-grav boots traveling at 55MPH up the turboshaft to reach "DECK 99" (not DECK 01?!) ranks up there with DSC's gaudy roller coaster ride, too. Heck, they're going so fast nobody could do their rendering of "99 Bottles of Beer On The Wall, 99 Bottles of Beer. Hic one down, pass it around, 98 bottles of Romulan Ale on the Wall."

The ambassadors definitely did fall flat. The idea is good. The execution - that of a burping Klingon, Romulan given even less to do, and David Warner being wasted (pun not intended but his character was a drunk, too)

The ending with everyone chummy works... and yet it doesn't. Captain Klaa (Dr Zoidberg's cousin?) is quick to not want to kill Kirk a bit too quickly. It's nice to see a backdrop and reminder of the hostilities between Federation and Klingon empire but they dropped the ball on this. Well-acted but the part is almost as paper thin as the trio of ambassadors that it's depressing. The movie has the right elements but just wasn't baked long enough.

Sha-Ka-Ri is in the center of the galaxy, protected by a barrier. There's a barrier at the edge of the galaxy as well. Maybe it's unintentional but there is another thought to be had regarding this, deliberately left unexplored. Or maybe not. TNG hinted at a cosmic plan in "Pen Pals" but it's open-ended enough, and making the Kelvins' breaching it with any of them surviving that much more awe-inspiring as a result.

The original rock monster design was scrapped due, in part to continued budget cuts. What we got was passable, in some ways arguably better.

But those negatives are outweighed by the positives:
I think Shatner had some excellent ideas which were well executed. Working closely with his Director of Photography, he created beautiful and dynamic compositions throughout the film especially during the prologue on Nimbus III in addition to other scenes throughout the film.

100% agreed. As a director, Shatner really is woefully underrated.

We actually go somewhere in this film. Yes, other films went to VGer, went to Ceti Alpha 5 or Vulcan but I got a real sense of traveling to someplace interesting by going to Nimbus III and eventually to Shakari.

Big-time. It's not another flick where Earth-is-in-danger, usually for an idea shoehorned in so poorly it doesn't make any compelling sense but at least the movie involving it has great special effects. If the antagonists really are insane in that "Well the Romulans hurt me so I'll go kill all humans instead". So, Shinzon and Nero, hi there...

Nimbus III is a cool idea - and as it's not the Federation, I never understood what was so apocryphal. Because the Federation kept emailing the Klingon and Romulan High Commands for absconding? (The setup is rough around the edges but is not a total flop.)

Part of this feeling of traveling is due in large part to the scenes in the officer's lounge which are amongst my favorite. I'm not talking about Sybok's revealing our hero's inner pain, but the scene where Kirk and McCoy find Spock in contemplation. I don't know why exactly but the star field outside the windows looks "real". I know it was projected but I always get a feeling that the ship is actually traveling and moving forward at a terrific velocity. Spock is literally "lost amongst the stars" in this scene and I find it quite beautiful.

The inner pain stuff and McCoy and Spock also starting to turn (but snap out of it, from recollection) was a high point.

Yes, as others have mentioned, this movie feels the closest to an episode. It's an adventure for once, not some galactic or earthly threat. It's just another "mission" and I find it very exciting.

After the arc of II-IV, an outing that feels like another mission, leaving open many gaps for episode opportunities is a nice breather... the plot may be warped in places (pardon the pun) but the feel of it as a return to basics worked and Shatner nailed it.

The search for "God" is very well handled, though I don't buy how Sybok wins over the Bridge crew so easily. The last act on Shakari is fantastic, punctuated by Kirk's classic "What does God need with a Starship" line. It's classic Kirk and results in the climax of the film where Sybok redeems himself for others. In some respects, Sybok becomes a Christ figure, sacrificing himself so his friends can live, not to redeem them from their sins but to redeem himself for his own. Being a religious individual, I find this a very satisfying conclusion to this characters story.

"God is everywhere but God is also in all of us", which was the message I got from it. It's philosophical. It might be why Roddenberry called the movie "apocryphal" as well as he did not like religion and fantasy being mixed in. The fact the entity is just an imprisoned critter that needs a hitchhike via galactic taxi ride (and don't forget a towel!) is the sort of plot subversion that needed to take place and the script does an overall decent job with this material.

Sybok follows the tried and tired trope of baddie-being-betrayed-becomes-benign. Don't try saying that after stuffing your mouth with delicious vanilla wafers like how I had. Made a bit of a mess... Mmmm, vanilla castoreum extract, gluten, and pure corn syrup, nom nom... But the scene in question is a little too rough. Not bad, but a little rough.

Having said that, the cat and mouse trope where this time it's the Enterprise being hunted was pretty cool.

Oh, the 2nd half of the movie ditches the comedy routine and becomes rather tight and engaging - which was desperately needed. That holds up so much better than the first half with all the frolics and antics.

I could write more but those are my thoughts. In a nutshell, I find the film fun like the original series was fun. It's not grand or epic or amazing, it's a fun adventure story well told (though I do wish some elements had been cut out...eesh that fight with the Cat Dancer makes no sense at all).

I think the writers were trying to really sell Nimbus III's irony - ostensibly a planet of galactic peace - as being a pest and pestilence-ridden heck hole. Late-80s attempts at nihilistic future and all that.

Overall, despite its problems, a lot of it hasn't aged too badly and it's exploring strange new worlds again. I like it more than I do TVH at this point.

 

[Lance]

Really good points, @Cutie McWhiskers

And yes, something I particularly like about the movie, is that sense of 'boldly going'. It's another way it ties back into the original series, most of the TOS movies feel very 'grounded' in a way, constantly back and forth from Earth like the Enterprise exists just to do milk runs these days, so The Final Frontier seeing the ship actually going out on a mission (and one largely isolated from the 'arc') feels very much like a return to Star Trek's grassroots.

It's the same with the big godlike being, and Sybok the cult leader and his merrie band taking over the ship, a great barrier, a focus on 'the big three' over other members of the ensemble, all of these things harken back to the original show in some way or other. Shatner absolutely knew what he was doing, he was tapping into his kind of spot memory of Star Trek plots from 20 years before, in an attempt to draw out that elusive feel. I think he mostly succeeded.

If I could change two things, they'd be removing the over the top humour (mandated by the studio, but still noticably at the expense of the lesser crew rather than the big three), and the crippling of the Enterprise herself (having her in such a state of disrepair really does nothing for the plot, and if anything adds incredulity to it; Shatner leans on this by having Kirk even make a point of asking Admiral Bob why Starfleet would send out a ship in this condition but the answer he gets back still only raises more questions than answers, they'd have been better off just having the new Enterprise be fully operational and ready for duty tbh).

 

[Racefuel]

TFF was utterly horrible except for one aspect...

It probably had the best music of all the TOS movies.

 

[Qonundrum]

Really good points, @Cutie McWhiskers

Thanks!

And yes, something I particularly like about the movie, is that sense of 'boldly going'. It's another way it ties back into the original series, most of the TOS movies feel very 'grounded' in a way, constantly back and forth from Earth like the Enterprise exists just to do milk runs these days, so The Final Frontier seeing the ship actually going out on a mission (and one largely isolated from the 'arc') feels very much like a return to Star Trek's grassroots.

It's the same with the big godlike being, and Sybok the cult leader and his merrie band taking over the ship, a great barrier, a focus on 'the big three' over other members of the ensemble, all of these things harken back to the original show in some way or other. Shatner absolutely knew what he was doing, he was tapping into his kind of spot memory of Star Trek plots from 20 years before, in an attempt to draw out that elusive feel. I think he mostly succeeded.

100% agreed!

Additional musings: I'm not sure Sybok really needed to be Spock's sibling - just seeing a Vulcan that proactively ditched the Kolinahr has enough dramatic meat to it. Making him Spock's half-brother, on the plus side, seals the deal that he's not a Romulan and Spock would be the closest reference point available. It would be a shock moment to the audience as well. And given his form of indoctrination, incorporating of all things EMDR, was a fairly poignant way to do things. And topped off by Laurence Luckinbill's performance. Sean Connery is always a class act (but Indy roped him first), but Luckinbill positively shines.

Shatner may have gotten the location of the barrier wrong, but its location still does introduce (good) questions as a result.

The focus on the big three is very much TOS's bread and butter...

And as he nailed the feel of TOS so spectacularly and for a debut outing -- again, he's underrated. Especially as the feel and tone of the piece do have value.

If I could change two things, they'd be removing the over the top humour (mandated by the studio, but still noticably at the expense of
the lesser crew rather than the big three),

I'm amazed any of the The Big Three get moments of being the butt of jokes. Or, worse, instigating them since the undershirt reading "Go climb a rock" was something that I had no idea was sold at the 23rd century equivalent to K-Mart.

What's worse is that TUC continues the secondary characters being the butt of all comedy. Laughing at the translators being recognized scene, I'm on the fence with Uhura and crew trying to say things off the cuff and getting it so wrong. Chekov, sure, but for the CO of the Communications division? That seems less likely.

and the crippling of the Enterprise herself (having her in such a state of disrepair really does nothing for the plot, and if anything adds incredulity to it; Shatner leans on this by having Kirk even make a point of asking Admiral Bob why Starfleet would send out a ship in this condition but the answer he gets back still only raises more questions than answers, they'd have been better off just having the new Enterprise be fully operational and ready for duty tbh).

I look at TFF as being the inverse of "The Enemy Within" in that "Within" contrives to get around the availability of shuttlecraft and TFF contrives to force their use. And it was the first movie to really make use of shuttlecraft, which was pretty cool as no Trek film had used them before. TMP had created courier ships for Spock and smaller transport pods to go between a space dock and ship, but not shuttles.

I like to think that Shatner was aiming for something like "Starfleet always thinks diplomacy will always work because this is Kirk and can save the day when nobody else can, this time oops it didn't and in a bad way, and now we're in terrible trouble so what can we do to save the day", hence the temporary truce with the Klingons and kudos to Spock for getting that to work -- and thus making TUC more poignant as it doesn't ditch TFF but builds on one of its developments for a sequel, even if it has Kirk pretending nothing ever happened in order for him to exhibit such total species prejudice again. As a story theme, it could have been better but enough of it works and seeing the Klingon ship referenced as being cloaked and nobody on Enterprise was paying attention... that was a good moment as well...

 

[Phoenix219]

Kirk should have been mountain climbing and camping on an alien (or at least frontier) planet, with a fully functional Enterprise above. They could have still done the Uhura/shuttlecraft gag.

I never thought of that before - did Shatner really just forget where the barrier from the pilot episode was?

The Jack Marshall Fanedit of this movie is amazing. I could watch it endlessly.

 

[EnriqueH]

Best comedic line of the movie:

Kirk and McCoy hang onto Spock and his rocket boots and start to sink:

“Must’ve been all those marsh melons...”

 

[Damian]

For me it is 13/13. But I always balance that by saying I don't hate any Star Trek movies. I like them all, and some I love.

Quality wise, this is probably the most flawed of the films. Part of that is on Shatner as the director. Part of that is on Paramount. They wanted to replicate the success of TVH so they insisted on more humor--and unlike TVH where it felt natural, many times with TFF it felt forced. Another is just how quickly they reach the center of the galaxy. Voyager was years away from starting, yet I still knew it should have taken years for them to reach the center of the galaxy. I'm pretty forgiving I think. I let quite a bit slide in a lot of Star Trek series--esp. if the story is good. But that was just too wide a gulf to poo-poo away. And the special effects---ugh. Maybe compared to other sci-fi franchises they might be ok. But TMP through TVH set the bar pretty high for Star Trek movies. No other Star Trek movie is worse in that area. The only reason I have Insurrection at 12/13 in my list is the special effects of TFF really drag it down. Sometimes I think the original effects from the original series were better. There were 2 exceptions (well other than the reused scenes from prior movies)--one was the Enterprise with the moon ahead of it. That was well done. And I actually liked the night view on Nimbus III where you see the 3 moons in the sky and the city below. Perhaps they were a bit much on the luminescence but it was a beautiful shot.

But I do agree with some of the other things people liked. This movie really captured the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic well--probably the best of the first 6 films. It also is one of the few films that doesn't have some vengeance angle and doesn't have Earth in peril (or really anyone for that matter). And even if I have issues with how quickly they reached their destination (and how poorly the effects were) I liked that they actually went where no man has gone before.

Laurence Luckinbill was an excellent choice. I'm not overly fond of Sybok being Spocks long lost half brother (it's not a huge deal though) Luckinbill did an excellent job with the role.

Jerry Goldsmith--seriously, need I say more. I always loved TMP theme and somehow here it actually sounds even better. And he had some new music cues that were effective.

And the forward observation room. I loved that set. I was sad it didn't make a reappearance in TUC. That's one of my favorite sets on the Enterprise-A.

 

[Vger23]

So, I watched the documentary "Free Solo" on Disney+ yesterday, and I will say this much:

As much as I love Star Trek V and I overlook a lot of its silliness....I'm now quite convinced the biggest dosage of foolishness in the entire Star Trek film series is the notion that Kirk could possibly free-climb El Captain.

I love Kirk...he's my favorite character in all of fictional existence.

But.......

NO




FRIGGING





WAY

 

[Roboturner913]

Because its heart was in the right place.

I know it has flaws, lots and lots of flaws, but to steal a Star Wars term, it feels "lived in."

 

[Vger23]

I never thought of that before - did Shatner really just forget where the barrier from the pilot episode was?

The Jack Marshall Fanedit of this movie is amazing. I could watch it endlessly.

No, it wasn't intended to be the same phenomenon. The "barrier" at the center of the galaxy is a mass of radiation, gravitation and general unpleasantness associated with the intense volatility of the environment at the galactic core. The Galactic Barrier at the edge of the galaxy is a negative energy field with highly unusual properties.

What is this fan edit you speak of???

 

[Phoenix219]

No, it wasn't intended to be the same phenomenon. The "barrier" at the center of the galaxy is a mass of radiation, gravitation and general unpleasantness associated with the intense volatility of the environment at the galactic core. The Galactic Barrier at the edge of the galaxy is a negative energy field with highly unusual properties.

What is this fan edit you speak of???

http://surak.nu/image/

Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[Roboturner913]

http://surak.nu/image/

Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

This looks awesome, I needed something to watch tonight.

 

[Phoenix219]

http://surak.nu/image

This looks awesome, I needed something to watch tonight.

I've never found a higher resolution version, which kind of sucks, but as it is, it kind of adds to the thought that we are watching it on antenna-tv in 1979 or so.

It flows so well, it doesn't skip a beat.

 

[EnriqueH]

http://surak.nu/image/

Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

It doesn’t open for me. Maybe because I’m using my phone? Any suggestions?

 

[EnriqueH]

One thing that I wish Trek V continued the “addressing the characters aging” like TWOK a bit more.

There were lines like “This is going to take me forever.” and “must’ve been all those marsh melons...”

But I think the movie begged for more. Mainly because, to me, they LOOKED like grandparents by this point.

Since humor was such a big part, they could’ve snuck in a line from Kirk complaining to Spock, “I’m going to feel that in the morning...” after disposing of Catwoman or rubbing his shoulder after throwing a punch.

Kirk especially was in denial of aging: throwing punches left and right, climbing El Capitain free style, jumping on horses, running up stairs, getting thrown around by Sybok.