Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
Perhaps Germans like the more progressive tone of the series.
My husband originally disliked Voyager and would wander around the house as I watched it. Eventually he came to like it and he is the one who bought the dvd sets - none of the other series.
Could it be that, at the time Voyager was being produced, the market had started to become over saturated with Star Trek? As such, the 'normal' ST viewers were sort of looking for reasons to hate a new show because they were getting burned out. However, people who had finally given in to the whole ST thing after years of being around and had begun watching ST with Voyager found Voyager to be decent show they enjoyed.
I found that Voyager was often a springboard for people to get into ST without having the dig through all the clutter of trying to understand all the canon at one go.
I found that Voyager was often a springboard for people to get into ST without having the dig through all the clutter of trying to understand all the canon at one go.
^ This. Many people I've met have told me that they think VOY is really entertaining, but that the rest of the ST universe doesn't interest them in the slightest. I honestly haven't the foggiest how that's even a thing - when I get hooked watching a show, I want to know EVERYTHING about the show's universe.
I think that attitude is the difference between a casual fan and someone who considers themselves part of a fandom.
Voyager had a really strong appeal to casual fans. People who enjoyed the ST universe but were wholly not interested in digging their heels and trying to learn all the lore. It was, mostly, light hearted, engaging enough, and all the characters were basically likable (even Neelix).
People who consider themselves part of the fandom and were/are really into the lore of the universe found themselves put off by Voyager because it was trying to appeal to both the hardcore fandom and the causal fans. It worked for the latter but not the former because it didn't pay enough attention the universe continuity. That, I think, was Voyager's biggest failing as a Star Trek show.
Voyager had a really strong appeal to casual fans. People who enjoyed the ST universe but were wholly not interested in digging their heels and trying to learn all the lore. It was, mostly, light hearted, engaging enough, and all the characters were basically likable (even Neelix).
People who consider themselves part of the fandom and were/are really into the lore of the universe found themselves put off by Voyager because it was trying to appeal to both the hardcore fandom and the causal fans. It worked for the latter but not the former because it didn't pay enough attention the universe continuity. That, I think, was Voyager's biggest failing as a Star Trek show.
Or alterantively they weren't after TNG-lite, sure TOS and TNG are similar but they where sperated by what 18 years, DSN was different because it was set onboard a space station. VOY just retread the same ground that TNG had been doing for the most part(because there were some vergy good episodes of VOY).
Views can depend on which show was your introduction to the world of ST. TNG also served as a springboard to get in to ST without having to dig through all the clutter of trying to understand all the canon in one go, if any show(s) relied on knowing canon it was DSN & ENT, as DSN used a lot of what TNG intrdocued, the Cardassians/ Bajoran occupation, DMZ, Klingon leadership etc...
But VOY problems were not with canon, but rather it's own level of internal consistancy
Can't replace the EMH
Can replace the EMH
Can't replace the EMH
We must uphold starfleet regulations
Screw starfleet regulations
We must uphold starfleet regulations
There are 143 crew members
there are 136 cremembers
There are 141 crewmembers
etc.
It displays a sort of don't care attitude from the producers of show, so why should the audiance care?
Sure there were some episode of VOY that stand up with the best of Trek, and Picardo was a highlight of the show as the EMH, but the show could have been so much more, so the feeling most fans have is not hate but dissapointment. Many of these issues could easily have been fixed without really impacting on individual episodes for the causla viewer but would have kept another part of the audiance happy. Really would it have been that hard to keep track of how many crew members you have killed off when you mentione how many crew you have left?
It's almost as if VOY was the popcorn (as in popcorn flick) version of ST.
Well, some of that could have been easily explained away. For example, children are born on board the ship, which means the crew roster numbers are going to change as people die and are born. Some of that could easily be applied to other ST series. The argument that Janeway flipped back and forth on the Prime Directive is also true of every ST captain we've watched. Dealing with whether or not the EMH could be replaced also covered how far along they'd come with learning new technology and how to deal with the holographic nature of his existence, though I will say that 'Living Witness' still irritates me because of the continuity issues there.
I feel like the audience who dislike Voy are the nitpickers who can't step back and enjoy a show for what it is. They're so entrenched in the minutia that don't really matter to the big picture of the series or the universe that they can't enjoy the show.
Every show has potential. Every show has missed potential.
The important question is did the main group of people who loyally watched the show continue to enjoy it? And, if the people who watched the show to nitpick it to death didn't enjoy it, was what they said about it valid?
In some respects, yes. The fact we didn't get new aliens but kept relying on ones we already knew was a hugely missed opportunity. The fact the ship could have been shown taking in and adapting alien technology, thus changing the look, feel, and behavior of the entire ship was a big miss. The fact there were no real interpersonal relationships that developed well into romantic relationships on an isolated ship was a terribly missed chance.
The fact the roster number kept changing or the captain disregarded the PD but was torn about it before she did it? I'm not sure that's the right example to give as to why the hardcore ST fans were disappointed with the series.
I feel like the audience who dislike Voy are the nitpickers who can't step back and enjoy a show for what it is. They're so entrenched in the minutia that don't really matter to the big picture of the series or the universe that they can't enjoy the show.
Every show has potential. Every show has missed potential.
The important question is did the main group of people who loyally watched the show continue to enjoy it? And, if the people who watched the show to nitpick it to death didn't enjoy it, was what they said about it valid?
In some respects, yes. The fact we didn't get new aliens but kept relying on ones we already knew was a hugely missed opportunity. The fact the ship could have been shown taking in and adapting alien technology, thus changing the look, feel, and behavior of the entire ship was a big miss. The fact there were no real interpersonal relationships that developed well into romantic relationships on an isolated ship was a terribly missed chance.
The fact the roster number kept changing or the captain disregarded the PD but was torn about it before she did it? I'm not sure that's the right example to give as to why the hardcore ST fans were disappointed with the series.
My biggest gripe with the show was the lack of consequences for the ship and the crew: the ship remained fully functional and there was never a long-lasting lack of anything (most notably shuttles); the crew never actually suffered any psychological break-downs, because...well, the Delta Quadrant might be crapsack, but life aboard Voyager was pretty comfortable, considering.
My second biggest gripe was the initial racism toward the EMH. Man, he's your ONLY medical professional. Would it kill you to treat him with a little more respect? Good God.
Still, yes, it was entertaining and light-hearted, so I just went along with that without reflecting too much on what irritated me about it.
My second biggest gripe was the initial racism toward the EMH. Man, he's your ONLY medical professional. Would it kill you to treat him with a little more respect? Good God.
Still, yes, it was entertaining and light-hearted, so I just went along with that without reflecting too much on what irritated me about it.
The lack of consequences is a legit gripe, though, and it was probably biggest waste of potential the show had. At the very least, there could have been mention of Voyager stopping to get supplies to explain away why the ship always looked so pristine.
'Year of Hell' is, in my opinion, how Voyager should have been for the entire run of the series. That ship had damage you could see, supplies were a real concern, and there were bad things that happened as a result of the crew making poor life choices.
Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined, which was kind of Voyager re-imagined, too) did a good job in that regard. Not to say that that show was perfect, or anything, but they got the whole "dwindling supplies and decaying ship for lack of replacements" thing down perfectly, imo.
But isn't the sum of all these little details rather them individually that is the problem? Most people will happily overlook a few continutiy problems but eventually you reach a point (which can vary from person to person) were that point is broken.
i.e. We only have 38 torpedeo's and no way to replace them.
Right so you've made a decision to highlight a specific problem to the audiance. Is it then wrong for the audiance to call you on it?
And taking it one step further if they can't replace their torpedeo's that would tend to indicate that the replicator is incapable of making parts for one. So taking it one step further that means that they won't be able to replace more complex things like say Shuttlecraft.
How about the Holodeck having an incompatable power system, I suspect they put that in so they wouldn't be called on wasting energy for holodeck useage (from TNG's: "Booby Trap")
And you can still enjoy something, whilst finding fault with.
See you've highlighted other issues with the show, I might add that they never really sold it that these people thought they might never see home again, but some opinions might differ.
Well, my point isn't that there weren't continuity issues. My point is that the issues you're highlighting aren't likely the issues a casual fan is going to see and be irritated by.
The question is 'Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager,' and the answer to that question has always been because Voyager lacked continuity in the way in which ST fans expect it to be there and because, during the time Voyager was on the air, it was competing against another ST show and against ST burn out.
The question of 'Why do you guys hate this show' when directed at ST fans regarding Voyager is an old one, and the answer hasn't changed much over the years.
I'm not saying the show didn't have issues. Clearly, it did, as do all shows. All I'm saying is that the issues you're highlighting are issues that it has been my personal experience are only issues to hardcore fans, people who enjoy nitpicking even shows they really like, and that's fine. I do it all the time with shows I watch.
However, the causal fan doesn't work that way. Someone who enjoys the show but isn't embroiled in the fandom isn't going to run with all those conclusions you just did. In fact, they're really unlikely to even realize there's a continuity glitch between the first and second half a season, let along between seasons. That's just not how casual fans operate. They watch because they like the characters and enjoy the show, not because they feel very strongly about any particular part of it in the way people in the fandom do.
All those little things you've mentioned only build up if you notice them, and casual fans aren't going to notice most of those and certainly not enough to be annoyed by them.
Voyager was built for the casual fan, and I think that's why hardcore ST fandom people, in general, never took to it.
But most of them could easily have been rectifed, by a line drop, keeping better track of things etc.. wouldn't hurt most episodes that the casual fans to notice but kept another segement of the audiance happier a win win.
If VOY had been set wihin the UFP like TNG and TOS before it then some of these details wouldn't matter. Run out of torpedeos/shuttles they visited a starbase and got replacements, same with crew reassignments etc... But VOY entire premiese removed away those possible explanations. Even the technology of ST has it's limitations.
But if we are talking audiance in general you have to walk a balance between your core audiance and the casual audiance. Alienate one or the other and you might have a problem, make it too much for the casual audaince and you risk losing your core audiance conversly make it too much for the core and you risk alienating/not attracting a more casual audiance.
If VOY had been set wihin the UFP like TNG and TOS before it then some of these details wouldn't matter. Run out of torpedeos/shuttles they visited a starbase and got replacements, same with crew reassignments etc... But VOY entire premiese removed away those possible explanations. Even the technology of ST has it's limitations.
But if we are talking audiance in general you have to walk a balance between your core audiance and the casual audiance. Alienate one or the other and you might have a problem, make it too much for the casual audaince and you risk losing your core audiance conversly make it too much for the core and you risk alienating/not attracting a more casual audiance.
I would argue that Voyager found a balance between the two, and it's only the extremes on both ends who took a dislike to the show. If it had been truly a failure at finding a middle ground, UPN would have canceled it. It did with Enterprise, after all.
I feel that those who go online and join into the fandom are an extreme kind of fan. They're not really a good representation of the audience as a whole, so, when someone asks why ST fans didn't like Voyager, what I feel they're really asking is, "Why didn't the hardcore, extreme fans of Star Trek not like Voyager," because, if a question like this is being posed on a discussion board such as this one, which is designed for a far more extreme, less causal interest in a show, then they're asking that small segment of the community.
Many people enjoy Star Trek, most of them don't go to conventions, and even fewer still dress up when they do. A smaller portion even than that participate in the fanclub that is literally a microcosm of the in-universe United Federation of Planets. Message boards are, I think, filled with mostly the last couple of levels of intense fandom.
Look at my post count. I'm clearly on that level of extreme, but I also recognize that Voyager was not a critical failure as a show, and I also recognize that it is not a show that is vastly loathed among the mid to casual viewer of Star Trek. It's a show that's often disliked by the extreme fan who, over the course of many years of being in love with the ST universe, created this really far reaching expectation of how they assumed and felt VERY strongly the show ought to be and was, unsurprisingly, VERY let down when those expectations weren't met.
But it's a very small group of people compared to the larger base of viewers for the show.
Yes, the ratings went down. Most show's do as the years progress. It wasn't enough to justify cancellation, which, I feel, means the show was fine and well liked enough not to be considered hated by the masses.
I keep rounding back to the question here, which is why do ST fans hate Voyager, and I don't think they do. I think there has always been, and always will be, a small segment of the ST fan base that doesn't like Voyager because the expectations they had versus the reality of marketing, script writing of the time, and a few other factors meant those expectations were never going to realistically be met.
I feel that those who go online and join into the fandom are an extreme kind of fan. They're not really a good representation of the audience as a whole, so, when someone asks why ST fans didn't like Voyager, what I feel they're really asking is, "Why didn't the hardcore, extreme fans of Star Trek not like Voyager," because, if a question like this is being posed on a discussion board such as this one, which is designed for a far more extreme, less causal interest in a show, then they're asking that small segment of the community.
Many people enjoy Star Trek, most of them don't go to conventions, and even fewer still dress up when they do. A smaller portion even than that participate in the fanclub that is literally a microcosm of the in-universe United Federation of Planets. Message boards are, I think, filled with mostly the last couple of levels of intense fandom.
Look at my post count. I'm clearly on that level of extreme, but I also recognize that Voyager was not a critical failure as a show, and I also recognize that it is not a show that is vastly loathed among the mid to casual viewer of Star Trek. It's a show that's often disliked by the extreme fan who, over the course of many years of being in love with the ST universe, created this really far reaching expectation of how they assumed and felt VERY strongly the show ought to be and was, unsurprisingly, VERY let down when those expectations weren't met.
But it's a very small group of people compared to the larger base of viewers for the show.
Yes, the ratings went down. Most show's do as the years progress. It wasn't enough to justify cancellation, which, I feel, means the show was fine and well liked enough not to be considered hated by the masses.
I keep rounding back to the question here, which is why do ST fans hate Voyager, and I don't think they do. I think there has always been, and always will be, a small segment of the ST fan base that doesn't like Voyager because the expectations they had versus the reality of marketing, script writing of the time, and a few other factors meant those expectations were never going to realistically be met.
When the audience thought it was going to be a 100 part story. Once they realized it was a 2-parter they stopped liking it.
It still would've gotten critiqued even if they had maintained it and sensibly dropped it after it ran its course. No matter what the show would get complaints.
If they stayed in conflict for the entire 7 seasons, they'd have to be insane. And the innate sexism of the premise would've drawn more complaints.
The audience wasn't ready to dislike Farscape from Day One, and keep complaining it should've stayed on. The opposite of Voyager.
Farscape had more to work with than Voyager did. And if Voyager had done similar stuff as Farscape, the audience would just complain they were ripping off past Trek (D'Argo = Worf, Zhann = A Bajoran type, Peacekeepers = Cardassians/Jem'Hadar, etc).
The premise wasn't that unique, and the audience complained anytime they tried to flesh out their surroundings. How the heck do you make new aliens if the audience complains if they showed up more than ONCE?
DS9 did this too. The Station was always at full capacity despite there being a full scale war going on. There was never any battle damage, the Defiant always looked fresh out of the factory, they never ran low on supplies, etc.
So why no complaints there?
No one cared when TOS did this with Spock.
NuBSG fell apart after only 2 seasons. That's all the "Lost Ship" plot is good for. And they wussed out plenty of times and also used the reset button (no matter what, Roslin always ended up back in charge and Adama was always fleet Commander, they never really ran out of anything, etc).
They kept the Equinox for almost a full season.
Well lets see what we know in regards to that
DSN was a key space station, close to the Cardassian border, served as a repair facility. So it serving as a reapir facility would mean it would get a fair amount of supplies and man-power.
As for personnel, there is a little known seldom used reserve activation clause, so many retired starfllet personnel could have been brought out of retirement to bolster the ranks
And we did have an episode with a B-plot regarding a part the Definat needed which was in short supply.
Lets see what VOY had
Access to Federation Repair Facilites - No
Access to replacement Starfleet Officers - No
That's one of the differences, shows like TOS, TNG and even DSN could more easily hand wave those things away as they visited a Starbase, meet up with another starship etc.. as we frequently saw them do. Now as for the argument VOY could also do some of that, sure it could but would those parts look like Starfleet parts? Would those facilites have access to materials that even the Federations contemparies in the AQ don't even have/use?
And destroyed it in a totally retarded way to keep Galactica as the one ship.
If VOY had done the same thing, it'd be critiqued for doing that.
And during a brutal war, you'd think a sign that the Producers were paying attention to this stuff would be that they'd be low on supplies and men. Especially since DS9 was a frontline base that would reasonably come up attack often.
Just that one B-Plot in ONE episode.
They had access to alien Repair Facilities and didn't lose that many people.
TOS and TNG and DS9 had them add use alien tech they shouldn't have understood with no problems.
Hell, even when they added advanced Borg tech that stood out the audience didn't care.
Apparently the only way to please them would've been for 90% of the ship to be converted to random alien tech. And every single bit of damage could never ever be repaired. If a light bulb broke on VOY, they should never have been able to fix it and have to use an alien lightbulb instead.
Voyager Kept Equinox around for 14 episodes and movie.
It really built on the shows potential giving Chakotay a command and seeing how he can sack up and hold his own against Janeway when she starts playing god.
Meanwhile Marla trying to win back Chakotay's respect and attraction was sweet and sometimes hilarious.
"If I'm such a bad, naughty, naughty serial killer, why don't you come over here and spank me?"
Although why did Janeway officiate the whole way through their ceremony, right up to the point where she asked the room if any one objects, until she objected?
That was a real dick move.
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