Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

[Anwar]

Beltran doesn't have a leg to stand on. This from an earlier thread but explains better what was really going on with him:

Season ONE:

Chakotay confronts his lover on her betrayal and using of him. Should have been a great scene except Beltran delivers it with all the emotion of a cigar store indian. It's AWFUL. And it's season one. So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic. Writers aren't going to write dramatic storylines for people who can't deliver.

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[catshadowsi8]

As I said before I don't have a problem with Beltran, acting or otherwise. It's common knowledge that the actors portraying humans were told to under act to make the aliens more believable and if they didn't they had to reshoot the scene. Watch Mulgrew. She is so stiff in some scenes you could bounce a quarter off her. They all lighten up in later seasons. Not their fault if the director is a fool!

 

[Catarina]

As I said before I don't have a problem with Beltran, acting or otherwise. It's common knowledge that the actors were told to under act to make the aliens more believable and if they didn't they had to reshoot the scene. Watch Mulgrew. She is so stiff in some scenes you could bounce a quarter off her. They all lighten up in later seasons.

I couldn't help but laugh, I'm too lazy to look but curious which episode for an example

 

[catshadowsi8]

I couldn't help but laugh, I'm too lazy to look but curious which episode for an example

State of Flux.

 

[HugeLobes]

So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic

I agree that Beltran is a pretty poor actor. Worse than that, he never seemed to put much into the role. I dont think Marina Sirtis was great either, but I never got the impression she was phoning it in.

However, I think his character was mostly sidelined because he had no place on the show. The First Officer should really form a nice counterpoint to the captain, but that never really happened in VOY. Chakotay didn't bring anything to the show.

In contrast, Picardo got a fantastic character. Make no mistake, I admire his acting immensely, but he got the interesting outsider character and all the wittiest dialogue.

 

[Catarina]

I don't think he's a poor actor. He needed to step up though.

 

[Anwar]

As I said before I don't have a problem with Beltran, acting or otherwise. It's common knowledge that the actors portraying humans were told to under act to make the aliens more believable and if they didn't they had to reshoot the scene. Watch Mulgrew. She is so stiff in some scenes you could bounce a quarter off her. They all lighten up in later seasons. Not their fault if the director is a fool!

But look at Mulgrew and Hackett in this scene alone, they're both chewing the scenery while all Beltran does is his blank stare.

EDIT: And the only one who says the human actors had to underact was Garrett Wang, and with his acting ability no one would be able to tell the difference!

 

[catshadowsi8]

Like I said I love characters not actors and, realistically, for every scene one side produces the other can produce their own, so let's agree to disagree. Works for me.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Now if you want to talk character I'll give it a go. Not everyone reacts the same way to betrayal. Some break down publically, some privately, some try be rational while others bury it so deep it's like they are in shock. They numb themselves to the pain. Some never come back. Humans are complex emotionally.

Based on Chakotay's character and what B'Elanna says about Chakotay in Manoveurs I doubt he would allow his emotions to show. He would not want to appear weak in front of the others. He is too private. He would bare down and react only in private.

 

[Anwar]

Now if you want to talk character I'll give it a go. Not everyone reacts the same way to betrayal. Some break down publically, some privately, some try be rational while others bury it so deep it's like they are in shock. They numb themselves to the pain. Some never come back. Humans are complex emotionally.

Based on Chakotay's character and what B'Elanna says about Chakotay in Manoveurs I doubt he would allow his emotions to show. He would not want to appear weak in front of the others. He is too private. He would bare down and react only in private.

It would've been nice if we'd seen that later in the episode, or at least have him start to react emotionally but quickly compose himself. Tim Russ did a great job of someone who does what you're suggesting.

 

[Sophie74656]

Beltran doesn't have a leg to stand on. This from an earlier thread but explains better what was really going on with him:

Season ONE:

Chakotay confronts his lover on her betrayal and using of him. Should have been a great scene except Beltran delivers it with all the emotion of a cigar store indian. It's AWFUL. And it's season one. So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic. Writers aren't going to write dramatic storylines for people who can't deliver.

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This was always my thought as well. Beltran wasn't that great so they didn't give him much. This lead to him complaining which lead to them giving him even less. It became a self perpetuting cycle.

On the other hand, actors like Picardo and Dawson who were good actors, who regularly met with producers to discuss their characters had better stronger material.

 

[Sophie74656]

I don't think he's a poor actor. He needed to step up though.

Maybe it depens on the project. People have said he was very good in a play he was in. I think on Voyager he just wasn't putting the effort in. He's flat out said he didn't even read scripts. Not a very professional attitued IMO, even if you're not happy with your job as long as you're on the payroll you put your best effort in.

 

[Catarina]

Maybe it depens on the project. People have said he was very good in a play he was in. I think on Voyager he just wasn't putting the effort in. He's flat out said he didn't even read scripts. Not a very professional attitued IMO, even if you're not happy with your job as long as you're on the payroll you put your best effort in.

He's not professional, or wasnt. Either way, yes it is a reasonable expectation to do what you are paid to do. That was disappointing. It won't change my appreciation for the character though.

 

[catshadowsi8]

It would've been nice if we'd seen that later in the episode, or at least have him start to react emotionally but quickly compose himself. Tim Russ did a great job of someone who does what you're suggesting.

They showed how he felt in later episodes, particularly Maneuvers and Basics.

 

[catshadowsi8]

On the other hand, actors like Picardo and Dawson who were good actors, who regularly met with producers to discuss their characters had better stronger material.

From what I've seen Beltran did that and was ignored in the later seasons.

I believe part of the problem was that his character did not fit the story arc they were telling. For some reason 'searching for my sense of self' became the mantra. The doctor and 7 were searching for humanity, B'Elanna her Klingon nature. Other characters not directly involved in this story line took a back seat, except for Janeway...first female captain and all. The more stable characters like Tuvok, Harry, Chakotay, and even Paris got left behind. In fact if Paris was not romantically involved with B'Elanna he would have had no story at all.

 

[Anwar]

From what I've seen Beltran did that and was ignored in the later seasons

By that point he'd likely burned his bridges.

I think the problem was that the writers were afraid of making Janeway look too weak in comparison to Chakotay and they didn't bother making Chakotay different enough from her in the first place.

Look at the conflict between Kira and Sisko. It was wrapped up after one season but at least they gave them both enough differences that it still meant something when they did conflict.

 

[Sophie74656]

From what I've seen Beltran did that and was ignored in the later seasons.

I believe part of the problem was that his character did not fit the story arc they were telling. For some reason 'searching for my sense of self' became the mantra. The doctor and 7 were searching for humanity, B'Elanna her Klingon nature. Other characters not directly involved in this story line took a back seat, except for Janeway...first female captain and all. The more stable characters like Tuvok, Harry, Chakotay, and even Paris got left behind. In fact if Paris was not romantically involved with B'Elanna he would have had no story at all.

Personally as a writer I would have ignored him to if he was bashing the show and staff and not even reading the scripts....

I have to disagree about Paris, he had plenty of story lines where he was a main character. Time and Again, Ex Post Facto, Parturition, Threshold, The Chute, Worst Case Scenario, Vis a Vis, Demon, Thirty Days, Gravity, Alice, Fair Have, Memorial, Spirit Folk

 

[Sophie74656]

By that point he'd likely burned his bridges.

I think the problem was that the writers were afraid of making Janeway look too weak in comparison to Chakotay and they didn't bother making Chakotay different enough from her in the first place.

Look at the conflict between Kira and Sisko. It was wrapped up after one season but at least they gave them both enough differences that it still meant something when they did conflict.

I actually haven't thought of that but I wonder if that was the case. They couldn't have Janeway look weak or back down to a man or some such thing about her being a woman.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Personally as a writer I would have ignored him to if he was bashing the show and staff and not even reading the scripts....

I have to disagree about Paris, he had plenty of story lines where he was a main character. Time and Again, Ex Post Facto, Parturition, Threshold, The Chute, Worst Case Scenario, Vis a Vis, Demon, Thirty Days, Gravity, Alice, Fair Have, Memorial, Spirit Folk

Sorry I guess I wasn't specific enough. I'm talking about the later seasons when Beltran was complaining about uneven character development. Remember I'm a character person, not an actor.

I thought the show was very balanced in the first three seasons. Even season 4 and 5 are Ok though you can see it start to shift. But 6 and 7?

My husband is watching for the first time. We are on season 7. He asked me why are so many episodes are about 'Who am I?'

If the character is not having some sort of identity crisis, they don't seem to get much story. Tjmo though. I guess if your favorite characters are getting lots of story because they fit this mantra that's ok but I'm into ensemble casts. I want all the characters to be developed, not just a select few.

 

[Sophie74656]

Sorry I guess I wasn't specific enough. I'm talking about the later seasons when Beltran was complaining about uneven character development. Remember I'm a character person, not an actor.

I thought the show was very balanced in the first three seasons. Even season 4 and 5 are Ok though you can see it start to shift. But 6 and 7?

My husband is watching for the first time. We are on season 7. He asked me why are so many episodes are about 'Who am I?'

If the character is not having some sort of identity crisis, they don't seem to get much story. Tjmo though. I guess if your favorite characters are getting lots of story because they fit this mantra that's ok but I'm into ensemble casts. I want all the characters to be developed, not just a select few.

I think all of the characters had development. Some had more than others, but every character had one or two episodes per season devoted to them.

In terms of story telling, if there's not a crisis what else are you talking about? It's not as interesting to see someone just going about their day. The drama is in the crisis.