Why do so many people love Spike so much?

[indranee]

Once a (lovable) bastard, always a (lovable) bastard.

 

[FPAlpha]

You know, just once, I'd like to meet someone who doesn't think that the character of Spike on Buffy and Angel is absolutely wonderful and can never do anything wrong. Just because he has a soul now doesn't mean he can't still be a bastard sometimes. Case in point, the BtVS Season 7 episode "Lies My Parents Told Me." I do admit that Robin Wood was wrong to try and kill Spike, but Spike's answer to this is to tell Robin that he doesn't care about his mother, and then has the arrogance to say that his mother loved him more than Nikki loved Robin. Add to that the fact that he still walks around wearing Nikki's leather coat as a trophy. At least Angel was far more sensitive towards those he'd caused pain to as Angelus. He wouldn't let someone kill him because of something Angelus did, but neither would he rub it in their faces the way Spike likes to.

Well.. people like Spike because he was a bastard. It was so much fun seeing him do evil stuff and his wit was razor sharp. When they started broadening his character he really got some fantastic scenes.. he is arrogant, violent and totally irreverent to authority. His humor is some of the best in the entire show and what made him sometimes so useful is that he couldn't stand bullshit when he saw it and called everybody on it.

In your specific example he actually did Robin a favor and told him the truth about Slayers which he himself couldn't admit. For Slayers the mission always came first.. not familiy, friends or anything else but their task to protect the world from evil. Buffy did it too when she stabbed Angel in the season 2 finale even though he had regained his soul. She killed the one true love of her life to save Earth. So in a way Spike's mother really loved him more than Robin's because Nikki Wood put being Slayer before being mother to Robin.

 

[saturn5]

You know, just once, I'd like to meet someone who doesn't think that the character of Spike on Buffy and Angel is absolutely wonderful and can never do anything wrong. Just because he has a soul now doesn't mean he can't still be a bastard sometimes. Case in point, the BtVS Season 7 episode "Lies My Parents Told Me." I do admit that Robin Wood was wrong to try and kill Spike, but Spike's answer to this is to tell Robin that he doesn't care about his mother, and then has the arrogance to say that his mother loved him more than Nikki loved Robin. Add to that the fact that he still walks around wearing Nikki's leather coat as a trophy. At least Angel was far more sensitive towards those he'd caused pain to as Angelus. He wouldn't let someone kill him because of something Angelus did, but neither would he rub it in their faces the way Spike likes to.

Well.. people like Spike because he was a bastard. It was so much fun seeing him do evil stuff and his wit was razor sharp. When they started broadening his character he really got some fantastic scenes.. he is arrogant, violent and totally irreverent to authority. His humor is some of the best in the entire show and what made him sometimes so useful is that he couldn't stand bullshit when he saw it and called everybody on it.

In your specific example he actually did Robin a favor and told him the truth about Slayers which he himself couldn't admit. For Slayers the mission always came first.. not familiy, friends or anything else but their task to protect the world from evil. Buffy did it too when she stabbed Angel in the season 2 finale even though he had regained his soul. She killed the one true love of her life to save Earth. So in a way Spike's mother really loved him more than Robin's because Nikki Wood put being Slayer before being mother to Robin.

But Robin was in the world she saved. She didn't put her job before her family, she gave her life to save her family. In Damage we find that Nicki's last thoughts were for Robin, silently pleading in her mind for Spike to spare her so she could go home to her little boy

 

[EJA]

You know, just once, I'd like to meet someone who doesn't think that the character of Spike on Buffy and Angel is absolutely wonderful and can never do anything wrong. Just because he has a soul now doesn't mean he can't still be a bastard sometimes. Case in point, the BtVS Season 7 episode "Lies My Parents Told Me." I do admit that Robin Wood was wrong to try and kill Spike, but Spike's answer to this is to tell Robin that he doesn't care about his mother, and then has the arrogance to say that his mother loved him more than Nikki loved Robin. Add to that the fact that he still walks around wearing Nikki's leather coat as a trophy. At least Angel was far more sensitive towards those he'd caused pain to as Angelus. He wouldn't let someone kill him because of something Angelus did, but neither would he rub it in their faces the way Spike likes to.

Well.. people like Spike because he was a bastard. It was so much fun seeing him do evil stuff and his wit was razor sharp. When they started broadening his character he really got some fantastic scenes.. he is arrogant, violent and totally irreverent to authority. His humor is some of the best in the entire show and what made him sometimes so useful is that he couldn't stand bullshit when he saw it and called everybody on it.

In your specific example he actually did Robin a favor and told him the truth about Slayers which he himself couldn't admit. For Slayers the mission always came first.. not familiy, friends or anything else but their task to protect the world from evil. Buffy did it too when she stabbed Angel in the season 2 finale even though he had regained his soul. She killed the one true love of her life to save Earth. So in a way Spike's mother really loved him more than Robin's because Nikki Wood put being Slayer before being mother to Robin.

But Robin was in the world she saved. She didn't put her job before her family, she gave her life to save her family. In Damage we find that Nicki's last thoughts were for Robin, silently pleading in her mind for Spike to spare her so she could go home to her little boy

Well said.

 

[EJA]

I remember reading a bunch of fan fics on FF.Net years ago now, written by someone who detested Spike, which invariably involved him being humiliated, and sometimes even killed off. One of them I found particularly amusing was called "Pervert", and began with Buffy catching Spike in her bedroom one day wearing her dirty underwear (!!!!), and staking him out of sheer disgust and annoyance.....but that's just the beginning of the story, things get really crazy afterwards. Sure, they were little more than hate stories, but I couldn't help enjoying this one. I tried looking for them on FF.Net very recently, but they don't appear to be there anymore.

Incidentally, I've always found the issue of souls and their absense in vampires in BtVS/A:tS quite interesting. It appears that in the Buffyverse, souls aren't necessarily the same as consciousness, personality and memories; after a person becomes a vampire, all these aspects remain, but are distorted by the demonic spirit. Angelus and pre-souled Spike were essentially the same people they'd been when they were human, just without a conscience. What do others reckon?

 

[DevilEyes]

I remember reading a bunch of fan fics on FF.Net years ago now, written by someone who detested Spike, which invariably involved him being humiliated, and sometimes even killed off. One of them I found particularly amusing was called "Pervert", and began with Buffy catching Spike in her bedroom one day wearing her dirty underwear (!!!!), and staking him out of sheer disgust and annoyance.....but that's just the beginning of the story, things get really crazy afterwards. Sure, they were little more than hate stories, but I couldn't help enjoying this one. I tried looking for them on FF.Net very recently, but they don't appear to be there anymore.

Whatever rocks your boat. That's what fanfiction is for, I guess.

Incidentally, I've always found the issue of souls and their absense in vampires in BtVS/A:tS quite interesting. It appears that in the Buffyverse, souls aren't necessarily the same as consciousness, personality and memories; after a person becomes a vampire, all these aspects remain, but are distorted by the demonic spirit. Angelus and pre-souled Spike were essentially the same people they'd been when they were human, just without a conscience. What do others reckon?

In Buffyverse, a soul is obviously the equivalent of conscience/internal moral compass, rather than what we usually mean by "soul".

 

[saturn5]

I remember reading a bunch of fan fics on FF.Net years ago now, written by someone who detested Spike, which invariably involved him being humiliated, and sometimes even killed off. One of them I found particularly amusing was called "Pervert", and began with Buffy catching Spike in her bedroom one day wearing her dirty underwear (!!!!), and staking him out of sheer disgust and annoyance.....but that's just the beginning of the story, things get really crazy afterwards. Sure, they were little more than hate stories, but I couldn't help enjoying this one. I tried looking for them on FF.Net very recently, but they don't appear to be there anymore.

Whatever rocks your boat. That's what fanfiction is for, I guess.

Incidentally, I've always found the issue of souls and their absense in vampires in BtVS/A:tS quite interesting. It appears that in the Buffyverse, souls aren't necessarily the same as consciousness, personality and memories; after a person becomes a vampire, all these aspects remain, but are distorted by the demonic spirit. Angelus and pre-souled Spike were essentially the same people they'd been when they were human, just without a conscience. What do others reckon?

In Buffyverse, a soul is obviously the equivalent of conscience/internal moral compass, rather than what we usually mean by "soul".

I read some of that fic, what's interesting is that the vamp who takes his place as Buffy's lover is always Dru or Darla which makes things a LOT more interesting in my point of view.
I'm not sure that having a soul necessarily makes you good but it gives you the choice. More interestingly is the question of demons such as Lorne and Whistler, do they have souls?

 

[EJA]

I remember reading a bunch of fan fics on FF.Net years ago now, written by someone who detested Spike, which invariably involved him being humiliated, and sometimes even killed off. One of them I found particularly amusing was called "Pervert", and began with Buffy catching Spike in her bedroom one day wearing her dirty underwear (!!!!), and staking him out of sheer disgust and annoyance.....but that's just the beginning of the story, things get really crazy afterwards. Sure, they were little more than hate stories, but I couldn't help enjoying this one. I tried looking for them on FF.Net very recently, but they don't appear to be there anymore.

Whatever rocks your boat. That's what fanfiction is for, I guess.

Incidentally, I've always found the issue of souls and their absense in vampires in BtVS/A:tS quite interesting. It appears that in the Buffyverse, souls aren't necessarily the same as consciousness, personality and memories; after a person becomes a vampire, all these aspects remain, but are distorted by the demonic spirit. Angelus and pre-souled Spike were essentially the same people they'd been when they were human, just without a conscience. What do others reckon?

In Buffyverse, a soul is obviously the equivalent of conscience/internal moral compass, rather than what we usually mean by "soul".

I read some of that fic, what's interesting is that the vamp who takes his place as Buffy's lover is always Dru or Darla which makes things a LOT more interesting in my point of view.

Erm, no, that didn't happen in the fic I read.

 

[Velocity]

I enjoyed Spike's character because he always had such great lines. his whole life was shown to us. He was a weak milquetoast in life with a close relationship to his mother and he wrote atrocious poetry. When he became a vampire he reveled in his new strength and it was very understandable. When he regained his soul, he didn't piss and moan about his old self, he accepted that he couldn't change the things he did in the past and after all he wasn't in control, the demon was. He just went on from there. He didn't betray everyone around him like Angel did while he had a soul. The question for me is why do so many love Angel and think he was a hero when he was such a dick.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Buffy Season Eight deals with Angel quite a bit and knocks him down considerably from his pedestal.

 

[saturn5]

Whatever rocks your boat. That's what fanfiction is for, I guess.


In Buffyverse, a soul is obviously the equivalent of conscience/internal moral compass, rather than what we usually mean by "soul".

I read some of that fic, what's interesting is that the vamp who takes his place as Buffy's lover is always Dru or Darla which makes things a LOT more interesting in my point of view.

Erm, no, that didn't happen in the fic I read.

There's a writer I used to like who wrote happy sequals to all darkfic ever, it's probably one of his/hers